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OlavEH

Oct 19, 2011
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Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
But with the number of TT kilometres, it means riders will have to attack. I like the route that forces them to do so instead of just waiting for MTF
Unless everyone will just wait until MTT and then ride defensively after that.
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The few times we see long range attacks is on the 1-2 last mountain stages of a GT. I will be very suprised if we see some of the top 5-6 favorites attack already on Fedaia or Gavia on the stages to Corvara and Livigno, respectively.

And as I also pointed out: the route is very vulnerable to bad weather. With a couple of days of bad weather they risk a cancellation of several of the most important mountain stages.
 
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damian13ster

May 27, 2014
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Re: Re:

OlavEH said:
damian13ster said:
But with the number of TT kilometres, it means riders will have to attack. I like the route that forces them to do so instead of just waiting for MTF
Unless everyone will just wait until MTT and then ride defensively after that.
Click to expand...

The few times we see long range attacks is on the 1-2 last mountain stages of a GT. I will be very suprised if we see some of the top 5-6 favorites attack already on Fedaia or Gavia on the stages to Corvara and Livigno, respectively.

And as I also pointed out: the route is very vulnerable to bad weather. With a couple of days of bad weather they risk a cancellation of several of the most important mountain stages.
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Well yeah, there might not be any action. But if you put in just MTFs then you are sure not to have any action since Froome (and possibly Landa) are only riders capable of dropping everyone by a minute, and only Nibali is crazy enough to actually do a successful 100km attack.
This is the better way imho, even considering risks with weather
 
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OlavEH

Oct 19, 2011
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Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
Well yeah, there might not be any action. But if you put in just MTFs then you are sure not to have any action since Froome (and possibly Landa) are only riders capable of dropping everyone by a minute, and only Nibali is crazy enough to actually do a successful 100km attack.
This is the better way imho, even considering risks with weather
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There should be a mix of both. And it's not the lack of tough MTF that is my only complaint. It's also the frequent use of very high passes, and that 2 of the most important moutain stages are mostly in France.
 
staubsauger

staubsauger

Jul 27, 2009
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Re: Re:

Eshnar said:
OlavEH said:
Eshnar said:
OlavEH said:
WheelofGear said:
This is the Giro. They race the race from the start to the end. Having a hard MTF in the end is overrated at best and boring at worst.
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Still, several very high passes. Two mountain stages mostly outside of Italy. And with this design you are very, very dependent on aggressive riding/attacks on Fedaia/Gavia/Agnello/Bonette if you want much action. And this is risky because 3 of these climbs are over 2600m.
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Aren't you dependent on aggressive riders on MTFs too?
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Yep, but how often do you see attacks with 50-60-70 kms to the stage finish? Not very often. With this route you are pretty much dependent on this on most of the mountain stages. Foscagno and Pordoi aren't very hard, and Campolongo and Eira are fairly easy. Here they will have to attack on Fedaia or Gavia to create some real action.

From the top of Agnello to the foot of the Risoul climb there is close to 40 km. I will be very suprised if someone attacks before the last climb here.

The St.Anna Vinadio stage is better, but it's still mostly in France. Why not use Italian climbs?
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True. Sadly, how often do climbers need to attack from that far out? If you stack a race with MTFs and not enough TT, that's what you get. I already stated that the TT that has been presented favours climbers too much. Even so, I do not think Risoul alone will be enough for them to recover the loss. Eventually they will be forced to attack from far. They'll probably rape horribly a stage or two, but I'm quite confident we'll see fireworks in at least a couple stages.
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To be honest, I do believe that Nibali in shape will get 2-3 minutes on Landa out of the itt's.

And I also do believe that the route offers enough options for Landa to make up his losses with fearless attacks in the mountains and a magic mtt.

I'm pretty sure he's going to attack. He is able to put Nibali in a mortal combat. He has to attack him therefore. Landa is able to break Nibali and gain 2-4 minutes if he really arrives in peak shape.

This route guarantees him the chance to try and do so. Hopefully he won't let us down.
 
Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Really who wants to see stages which force the riders to long range attacks? :rolleyes:
Honestly, the route seems pretty great. The fact that the last two mountain stages are mostly in france is lame, but it wont harm the racing. It will even be much better than on a route with fauniera on the penultimate day. The mountain stages themselves are pretty difficult IMO (until now my favorites are St. Anna and Livigno and I'm really curious to see the Pinerolo stage) and only one 1st category mtf is absolutely great.
However I understand the criticism about too many high mountains. Gavia and Agnello aren't such big problems because you can get to the finish on another way easily. Aprica instead of gavia (although foscagno is also a potential danger if it snows really heavily) and Sestriere - Montgenevre instead of Agnello. The problem with Lombarde and Bonette is that the other possible route over the larche would be much easier and the even bigger problem is that the mtf would suddenly be very difficult. That means the only two mtf's of the giro would be the last two mountain stages, and that could destroy the whole racing earlier on.
Ps: and the TT's aren't balanced at all too.
 
Eshnar

Eshnar

Mar 24, 2011
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http://corrierealpi.gelocal.it/spor...-2016-la-tappa-sara-alpago-corvara-1.12138346
According to that, the Corvara stage will start from Farra d'Alpago, go through S.Pellegrino, Pordoi, S.Lucia, Giau and Valparola.
The next day could probably be a MTF to Siusi (not a MTT apparently) starting from Corvara. If that's so, possibilities are endless.

Stage 1 Apeldoorn ITT 11 km OFF
Stage 2 Arnhem - Nijmegen 180 km OFF
Stage 3 Nijmegen - Arnhem 190 km OFF
Rest
Stage 4 Catanzaro - Policoro? ***
Stage 5 ??? - Benevento ****
Stage 6 Ponte - Roccaraso ****
Stage 7 Sulmona - Foligno ****
Stage 8 Foligno - Arezzo (with sterrato) ****
Stage 9 Redde in Chianti - Greve in Chianti ITT 40.4 km OFF Profile
Rest
Stage 10 ??? - Sestola*****
Stage 11 Modena - Asolo ****
Stage 12 Noale - Bibione ***
Stage 13 Palmanova - Cividale del Friuli 161 km OFF Profile
Stage 14 Farra d'Alpago - Corvara ****
Stage 15 Alpe di Siusi MTT OR Corvara - Alpe di Siusi MTF OR Andalo MTT? or MTF? ****
Rest
Stage 16 Molveno? - Livigno ****
Stage 17 Livigno - Monza ****
Stage 18 Muggiò - Pinerolo *****
Stage 19 Pinerolo - Risoul MTF *****
Stage 20 Guillestre - S.Anna di Vinadio MTF *****
Stage 21 Cuneo or Borgo S.Dalmazzo - Torino ****

Profile of the rumoured Corvara stage will come shortly :D
 
Eshnar

Eshnar

Mar 24, 2011
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kBJy27f.png
 
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barmaher

Oct 2, 2011
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I don't like the look of this route, guys. Admittedly, I always struggle to work out what is happening with the medium mountain stages, as I don't know Italy's geography so well....but it looks mediocre.
 
Eshnar

Eshnar

Mar 24, 2011
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Re:

barmaher said:
I don't like the look of this route, guys. Admittedly, I always struggle to work out what is happening with the medium mountain stages, as I don't know Italy's geography so well....but it looks mediocre.
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Benevento will probably be long and have a bumpy finish.
Roccaraso will be a proper medium mountain stage, with maybe Rionero Sannitico and Pietransieri (see the stage to Pescocostanzo 2008) before a finish in town or even further to the neighbouring ski-station of Aremogna (not a hard climb anyway).
Foligno probably a breakaway stage
Arezzo will have the unsurfaced climb to Alpe di Poli at least. Not sure about the rest.
Sestola is rumoured to have a first full climb to Passo del Lupo (see 2014 mtf), before descending and climbing again a bit to the proper town.
Pinerolo will have Pramartino from the hard side (the one descended in 2009 and 2011).
 
Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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The dolomites stage is lame, if you consider what possibilities you have in the dolomites. However the rest looks great. Haven't realized that there is a stage to roccaraso before Eshnar wrote about medium mountain stages. I hope they will use it like in the epic aquila stage in 2010 (the stage with the huge break) with Rionero Sannitico directly before. That would even make it a very gc relevant stage.
Sestola should be great too, because IMO the mtf in 2014 was way underrated and definitely a 1st category climb (16.5 km's at 5.5% but with stretches up to 13%)
 
May0maniac

May0maniac

Jun 30, 2014
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Re:

Eshnar said:
kBJy27f.png
Click to expand...
I'd prefer a finish on Valparola or even Better Falzarego, but we could the the Mür dl giat before the finish.
murdlgiat_altimetria2.jpg

Giau, Valparola and Mür would be classic finish of the Maratona dles Dolomites.
 
May0maniac

May0maniac

Jun 30, 2014
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Re:

Eshnar said:
I don't know why you people suddenly became so grumpy. This stage is better than 95% mountain stages of the last 10 years.
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Yes, I just think that Falzarego after Giau would be a great easier MTF after a harder penultimate climb and I'd really love to see that.
It's still an awesome stage, the big problem could be a potential MTT on the next day...
 
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