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Giro d'Italia 2016 St 20 Guillestre–S.Anna di Vinadio 134 km

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The Top ten, assuming it remains unchanged tomorrow is an interesting mix of nationalities. You have 3 Columbians, then you have 1 each from Italty, Spain, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Poland, Costa Rica, and Belarus. Definately not the usual blend of countries.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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Squirbos_19 said:
Also well done to Jungels, I really think he can become a decent GT rider. He did pretty well this Giro when no one expected anything.
Yes,another Majka or maybe Konig?
 
Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

You should post this nonsense in the clinic! The man is class on the bike and a great champion, with biggest heart and balls in the whole peloton!
I did not post anything related with clinic stuff, but I guess you must know something that I don't know because you sent me there right away.
 
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DNP-Old said:
Mr.White said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

You should post this nonsense in the clinic! The man is class on the bike and a great champion, with biggest heart and balls in the whole peloton!
How was Valverde's attack on the Agnello?

Maybe it was better at Lombarde. Did you feel the dust.. ;)
 
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Escarabajo said:
Mr.White said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

You should post this nonsense in the clinic! The man is class on the bike and a great champion, with biggest heart and balls in the whole peloton!
I did not post anything related with clinic stuff, but I guess you must know something that I don't know because you sent me there right away.

And what this means then? The bolded part
 
Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
DNP-Old said:
Mr.White said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

You should post this nonsense in the clinic! The man is class on the bike and a great champion, with biggest heart and balls in the whole peloton!
How was Valverde's attack on the Agnello?

Maybe it was better at Lombarde. Did you feel the dust.. ;)
Hitched his wagon onto Uran instead of Chaves. Amazing attack indeed. Hats off.
 
Oct 23, 2011
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gatete said:
I started to dislike Nibali since Mortirolo 2011 with all that whining on how AC toyed with him, then 2012 Tour whining again, this Giro in the beginning whining at Valverde, whines, whines whines. I was gutted on 2014 and now with 3+ minutes deficit he wins because of a crash, pff, some people may say I'm a hater but is not hate is just dislike to the man that shows no humility.

Yeah, such an arrogant guy. How dare he come back from a 3+ minutes deficit. :p

Look, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Nibali and Astana, but all this hating while Nibali showed a great mentality this Giro, attacking from far out, trying desperate all or nothing attacks to race for the win even when he was minutes behind, makes me smile. :D

(btw, I'm not singling you out, I'm talking about the Nibali hating in general; your post made me smile, but to be honest, you're actually being one of the more reasonable posters of the Nibali criticizers here, because I do remember him coming across a bit silly whining a lot in interviews in the past)
 
Mar 13, 2015
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DNP-Old said:
Mr.White said:
DNP-Old said:
Mr.White said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

You should post this nonsense in the clinic! The man is class on the bike and a great champion, with biggest heart and balls in the whole peloton!
How was Valverde's attack on the Agnello?

Maybe it was better at Lombarde. Did you feel the dust.. ;)
Hitched his wagon onto Uran instead of Chaves. Amazing attack indeed. Hats off.

Indeed. Thanks. He gave him a minute in 3-4 km of climbing, so...
 
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carton said:
No. Just, no. Professional sport is first and foremost entertainment. There are artificial rules placed on participants in order to determine a winner, based on an equally artificial scoring system. Not in order to qualitatively ascertain who is is "strongest". The most important thing for both the participants and the organizers is how much money they make, not how hard they try to figure out who was "strongest". Who was "strongest" is entirely a matter of opinion. The "logic" that whoever wins must be the strongest is a tedious fallacy used by lazy commentators to try to imbue sport with some kind of mystical power.


You have to set some artificial time interval,otherwise anybody can be the strongest on a random day (that's why there can be hundreds of different single stage winners). You cannot decide who's the strongest on arbitrary conditions.
They train with those 3 weeks in mind, so the question "who's strongest over 3 weeks" is legit because they all train accordingly and, thus, they can be assessed on a "common ground"
Moreover,3 weeks are a sufficient span of time to determine who's the best (its like basketball,plaing best of 7 increase the "accuracy")

"strongest" is a volatile word. Maybe Kruysvik can produce more watts on a cyclette..who knows

Don't forget,it's a race. "the best" rider is the one who wins. That's the definition of "being the strongest"
 
Jun 30, 2014
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CheckMyPecs said:
Today was the first ever Giro stage win by an Estonian cyclist.
Great win for him and him drawing a Z for Zakarin in the air with one of his fingers was a nice gesture. I was really torn, I wanted Rein to win the stage as much as I was hoping for an Atapuma or a Dombrowski win, but at least Atapuma got a top 10 on gc by being an awesome rider and attacking in the high mountains.
Gutted for Cunego, but Nieve deserves the mountains jersey, he rode an awesome Giro.
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I like Nibali, but I kinda feel that Chaves and Kruijswijk deserved it more, this feels a bit like one of Savoldelli's wins, but that's just life.
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
RattaKuningas said:
As an Estonian I'm very happy with Taaramäe win. Both Taaramäe and Kangert rode well today.
Congrats. Good to see Taaramäe back in the fold.

:D

Last kilometers were extremely tense because TV directors showed Atapuma but not the time gap between Taaramäe and him. Trying to make things interesting on purpose I guess. He seems better now than few years ago and hopefully there will be more good results like today.

CheckMyPecs said:
Today was the first ever Giro stage win by an Estonian cyclist.

Probably will have to wait long time for a 2nd one I guess :D
 
What a Giro!!

Congrats to Astana and Nibs for riding a great 3 weeks......Scarponi was amazing for Nibs over the last few days.
Love them or hate them (Astana, Vino, Nibs) they know how to win GT's

I knew very little about Stevie K or Bob Jungels before this years edition of the race - now big fans of them both and hoping they both have very bright futures in GT racing!

Sad for Chaves, but he doesn't have the team to support him in these types of races....very nice touch at the finish line of Nibs to console his parents.

I'm swapping out my cranks for longer ones ASAP ;)
 
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JackRabbitSlims said:
What a Giro!!

Congrats to Astana and Nibs for riding a great 3 weeks......Scarponi was amazing for Nibs over the last few days.
Love them or hate them (Astana, Vino, Nibs) they know how to win GT's

I knew very little about Stevie K or Bob Jungels before this years edition of the race - now big fans of them both and hoping they both have very bright futures in GT racing!

Sad for Chaves, but he doesn't have the team to support him in these types of races....very nice touch at the finish line of Nibs to console his parents.

I'm swapping out my cranks for longer ones ASAP ;)

His team was ok, they helped him pretty much in Andalo stage, then yesterday set him up on Agnello, and then Plaza drive the pace from Agnello descent until Risoul. He can't complain at his team. He didn't lost because of them. He lost because he didn't had the legs to follow Nibali, and later Valverde and Uran.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Mayomaniac said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Today was the first ever Giro stage win by an Estonian cyclist.
Great win for him and him drawing a Z for Zakarin in the air with one of his fingers was a nice gesture. I was really torn, I wanted Rein to win the stage as much as I was hoping for an Atapuma or a Dombrowski win, but at least Atapuma got a top 10 on gc by being an awesome rider and attacking in the high mountains.
Gutted for Cunego, but Nieve deserves the mountains jersey, he rode an awesome Giro.
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I like Nibali, but I kinda feel that Chaves and Kruijswijk deserved it more, this feels a bit like one of Savoldelli's wins, but that's just life.

SK, I can understand. But Chaves? He profited from SK's crash just like Nibali, but turned out too weak to win the race.

Also, Nibali lost a good 20 or so seconds when his chain came off in the MTT. Though fortunate , he wasn't as fortunate as Chaves. Just stronger and bolder.
 
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Re: Re:

SeriousSam said:
Mayomaniac said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Today was the first ever Giro stage win by an Estonian cyclist.
Great win for him and him drawing a Z for Zakarin in the air with one of his fingers was a nice gesture. I was really torn, I wanted Rein to win the stage as much as I was hoping for an Atapuma or a Dombrowski win, but at least Atapuma got a top 10 on gc by being an awesome rider and attacking in the high mountains.
Gutted for Cunego, but Nieve deserves the mountains jersey, he rode an awesome Giro.
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I like Nibali, but I kinda feel that Chaves and Kruijswijk deserved it more, this feels a bit like one of Savoldelli's wins, but that's just life.

SK, I can understand. But Chaves? He profited from SK's crash just like Nibali, but turned out too weak to win the race.

Also, Nibali lost a good 20 or so seconds when his chain came off in the MTT. Though fortunate , he wasn't as fortunate as Chaves. Just stronger and bolder.
Chaves because he was one of the most consistent riders (behind SK of course), he faded a bit today but other than that he was one of the most consistent riders of the Giro, he never had a real bad day when he lost minutes.
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I disagree. I think he would have been more of a d-bag if he had kept working for Chaves. I imagine his DS had something to say about that.

Screw nationalistic collusion.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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hrotha said:
Mayomaniac said:
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I disagree. I think he would have been more of a d-bag if he had kept working for Chaves. I imagine his DS had something to say about that.

Screw nationalistic collusion.

Screw nationalism in general. Hopefully DT doesn't see this :p
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Gloin22 said:
Carols said:
4 Grand Tours and a Monument....One of the best in the sport!

3 lucky GT's. I wish all people on this planet had as much luck as Nibali .

Personally I don't really believe in luck in sports. Nibali has capitalised on his rivals' mistakes 3 times.

I don't agree. With all due respect, denying the part blind luck plays in sports shows a willful blindness on your part. Best example to see the part luck plays in sports is probably football, specifically Champions League knock-out rounds. From draw to refereeing decisions to deflections etc, any one of those can change an outcome of a match and often the best team don't win as a result.

It is similar in cycling. One man's mistake is other's lucky break. While Nibali himself pushed the agenda on the descent where Kruijswijk crashed, his actions played no part in Anton or Contador crashing out in 2010 and 2014 respectively. Nibali obviously has the ability to put himself in a position to capitalise on his main rivals mistakes and misfortunes, but without that crucial slice of luck this particular ability wouldn't count for much. And without a doubt, Nibali has had that sort of luck more than any other multiple GC winner of recent times.
 
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Re: Giro d'Italia 2016 St 20 Guillestre–S.Anna di Vinadio 13

Just to add my 2 lira to the discussion... what some people keep calling luck other people might call bike handling skills and tactics. If winning GTs was only about who can go up-hill fastest, it would be a very boring sport.
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Today was the first ever Giro stage win by an Estonian cyclist.
Great win for him and him drawing a Z for Zakarin in the air with one of his fingers was a nice gesture. I was really torn, I wanted Rein to win the stage as much as I was hoping for an Atapuma or a Dombrowski win, but at least Atapuma got a top 10 on gc by being an awesome rider and attacking in the high mountains.
Gutted for Cunego, but Nieve deserves the mountains jersey, he rode an awesome Giro.
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I like Nibali, but I kinda feel that Chaves and Kruijswijk deserved it more, this feels a bit like one of Savoldelli's wins, but that's just life.

Absolutely delighted for Taaramäe, he said from the start that stage win was his goal, but had to work for Zakarin for the most part. Used his chance well when he got it.

In an interview during the first week he was very complimentary for Zakarin, describing him more like a friend than just a teammate. As such his nice gesture on the finish line becomes even more understandable.
 
Re: Re:

hrotha said:
Mayomaniac said:
Uran was a bit of an d-bag, under normal circumstances nobody would complain about him going with Valverde, but yesterday he declared that he'd help Chaves, so going with Valverde when you have no chance of finishing in the top 5 on gc was kinda meh...
I disagree. I think he would have been more of a d-bag if he had kept working for Chaves. I imagine his DS had something to say about that.

Screw nationalistic collusion.

In reality, Uran said on Italian TV after the race when asked about actually helping Chaves that instead he needed to win a stage, given that his Giro was hopelessly compromised. Team orders.
 
Re: Re:

Põhja Konn said:
Brullnux said:
Gloin22 said:
Carols said:
4 Grand Tours and a Monument....One of the best in the sport!

3 lucky GT's. I wish all people on this planet had as much luck as Nibali .

Personally I don't really believe in luck in sports. Nibali has capitalised on his rivals' mistakes 3 times.

I don't agree. With all due respect, denying the part blind luck plays in sports shows a willful blindness on your part. Best example to see the part luck plays in sports is probably football, specifically Champions League knock-out rounds. From draw to refereeing decisions to deflections etc, any one of those can change an outcome of a match and often the best team don't win as a result.

It is similar in cycling. One man's mistake is other's lucky break. While Nibali himself pushed the agenda on the descent where Kruijswijk crashed, his actions played no part in Anton or Contador crashing out in 2010 and 2014 respectively. Nibali obviously has the ability to put himself in a position to capitalise on his main rivals mistakes and misfortunes, but without that crucial slice of luck this particular ability wouldn't count for much. And without a doubt, Nibali has had that sort of luck more than any other multiple GC winner of recent times.

I don't really see refereeing decisions as bad luck, just crappy mistakes. Ofc, the person getting the decisions against them never cannot do much about it, but I've never come off the football/rugby pitch with a bad referee saying "man what bad luck". I agree with the draw, but I'll admit that I was more thinking about sport in action.

In 2014 Contador had some bad luck, yes, but it was avoidable to an extent. In 2010, Anton "crashed alone", in his own words. Sad moment, yes, but a mistake rather than luck. The 'luckiest' break Nibali has got was the 2014 Tour.