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Giro d'Italia 2016 St 20 Guillestre–S.Anna di Vinadio 134 km

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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Põhja Konn said:
Brullnux said:
Gloin22 said:
Carols said:
4 Grand Tours and a Monument....One of the best in the sport!

3 lucky GT's. I wish all people on this planet had as much luck as Nibali .

Personally I don't really believe in luck in sports. Nibali has capitalised on his rivals' mistakes 3 times.

I don't agree. With all due respect, denying the part blind luck plays in sports shows a willful blindness on your part. Best example to see the part luck plays in sports is probably football, specifically Champions League knock-out rounds. From draw to refereeing decisions to deflections etc, any one of those can change an outcome of a match and often the best team don't win as a result.

It is similar in cycling. One man's mistake is other's lucky break. While Nibali himself pushed the agenda on the descent where Kruijswijk crashed, his actions played no part in Anton or Contador crashing out in 2010 and 2014 respectively. Nibali obviously has the ability to put himself in a position to capitalise on his main rivals mistakes and misfortunes, but without that crucial slice of luck this particular ability wouldn't count for much. And without a doubt, Nibali has had that sort of luck more than any other multiple GC winner of recent times.

I don't really see refereeing decisions as bad luck, just crappy mistakes. Ofc, the person getting the decisions against them never cannot do much about it, but I've never come off the football/rugby pitch with a bad referee saying "man what bad luck". I agree with the draw, but I'll admit that I was more thinking about sport in action.

In 2014 Contador had some bad luck, yes, but it was avoidable to an extent. In 2010, Anton "crashed alone2, in his own words. Sad moment, yes, but a mistake rather than luck. The 'luckiest' break Nibali has got was the 2014 Tour.

When your main rivals crash out and you win, but get beaten by a 42 year-old Horner, yes one can say you have been extremely lucky! :D At the very least Fortune has been most kind.
 
Re:

Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

He can't help it that SK hit the snowwall and that Chaves faded.
I can understand your feelings, but keep it in perspective.

Nibali certainly had his luck in GT's, that can't be denied. It's not like he made those riders crash though.
 
Just a small curiosity: Nieve was the fastest rider over the past two stages putting around 1.30 minutes into Giro winner Nibali. No wonder he couldn't follow Dombrowski, Visconti, Atapuma and Taaramae on Lombarde, specially after going solo from the base of Bonette.

Massive, massive respect for an awesome pure climber, built for these kind of stages where only the strongest can perform. Looking forward to see him :)
 
Re:

trevim said:
Just a small curiosity: Nieve was the fastest rider over the past two stages putting around 1.30 minutes into Giro winner Nibali. No wonder he couldn't follow Dombrowski, Visconti, Atapuma and Taaramae on Lombarde, specially after going solo from the base of Bonette.

Massive, massive respect for an awesome pure climber, built for these kind of stages where only the strongest can perform. Looking forward to see him :)
Didnt el Puma put over 2 min into lo Squalo, duoble that of Lord Snow?
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Põhja Konn said:
Brullnux said:
Gloin22 said:
Carols said:
4 Grand Tours and a Monument....One of the best in the sport!

3 lucky GT's. I wish all people on this planet had as much luck as Nibali .

Personally I don't really believe in luck in sports. Nibali has capitalised on his rivals' mistakes 3 times.

I don't agree. With all due respect, denying the part blind luck plays in sports shows a willful blindness on your part. Best example to see the part luck plays in sports is probably football, specifically Champions League knock-out rounds. From draw to refereeing decisions to deflections etc, any one of those can change an outcome of a match and often the best team don't win as a result.

It is similar in cycling. One man's mistake is other's lucky break. While Nibali himself pushed the agenda on the descent where Kruijswijk crashed, his actions played no part in Anton or Contador crashing out in 2010 and 2014 respectively. Nibali obviously has the ability to put himself in a position to capitalise on his main rivals mistakes and misfortunes, but without that crucial slice of luck this particular ability wouldn't count for much. And without a doubt, Nibali has had that sort of luck more than any other multiple GC winner of recent times.

I don't really see refereeing decisions as bad luck, just crappy mistakes. Ofc, the person getting the decisions against them never cannot do much about it, but I've never come off the football/rugby pitch with a bad referee saying "man what bad luck". I agree with the draw, but I'll admit that I was more thinking about sport in action.

In 2014 Contador had some bad luck, yes, but it was avoidable to an extent. In 2010, Anton "crashed alone", in his own words. Sad moment, yes, but a mistake rather than luck. The 'luckiest' break Nibali has got was the 2014 Tour.

Yeah, refereeing decisions are arguable, but deflections on the other hand completely random, a very definition of blind luck.

Anyway, I only argued with your original claim of luck playing no part in sports, which was obviously wrong as your own reply suggested. I quite agree with your opinion on Tour 2014 being Nibalis luckiest GT.
 
Re:

trevim said:
Just a small curiosity: Nieve was the fastest rider over the past two stages putting around 1.30 minutes into Giro winner Nibali. No wonder he couldn't follow Dombrowski, Visconti, Atapuma and Taaramae on Lombarde, specially after going solo from the base of Bonette.

Massive, massive respect for an awesome pure climber, built for these kind of stages where only the strongest can perform. Looking forward to see him :)

Not true: Atapuma was 2:45 behind Nieve yesterday, but 3:20 ahead today, a 35 second advantage to the Colombian.

Respect to Nieve indeed, but not more than to El Puma.
 
Re: Re:

Armchair cyclist said:
trevim said:
Just a small curiosity: Nieve was the fastest rider over the past two stages putting around 1.30 minutes into Giro winner Nibali. No wonder he couldn't follow Dombrowski, Visconti, Atapuma and Taaramae on Lombarde, specially after going solo from the base of Bonette.

Massive, massive respect for an awesome pure climber, built for these kind of stages where only the strongest can perform. Looking forward to see him :)

Not true: Atapuma was 2:45 behind Nieve yesterday, but 3:20 ahead today, a 35 second advantage to the Colombian.

Respect to Nieve indeed, but not more than to El Puma.
Well the math is correct, you're absolutely right. I just didn't noticed Atapuma too much yesterday. Great ride overall from both of them :)
 
Re: Re:

carolina said:
Jagartrott said:
Cardoso was the Giro-ninja, for sure.
14th in GC, somehow.

well, it's between him and siutsou, who is 10th.
Siutsou was quite proeminent on the stage to Corvara.

Cardoso was his usual self, massive regularity but he doesn't seem to to search for that spark to win a stage. It helps when your leader sucks though, he has a lot of freedom to ride this type of race. Although the Giro suits him so well, he deserves to ride the Tour one day but it seems to be impossible to be selected above over-hyped american riders.
 
Re: Re:

trevim said:
carolina said:
Jagartrott said:
Cardoso was the Giro-ninja, for sure.
14th in GC, somehow.

well, it's between him and siutsou, who is 10th.
Siutsou was quite proeminent on the stage to Corvara.

Cardoso was his usual self, massive regularity but he doesn't seem to to search for that spark to win a stage. It helps when your leader sucks though, he has a lot of freedom to ride this type of race. Although the Giro suits him so well, he deserves to ride the Tour one day but it seems to be impossible to be selected above over-hyped american riders.

Dupont and Cardoso for me.
 
Re:

staubsauger said:
Wait pals, you recognized Hubert Dupont once in this Giro!? Was he in one breakaway I can't remember?
He was hanging at the back of the maglia rosa group for quite some stages. Was in the breakaway yesterday.

Funny thing about the Giro for us francophones (France, Wallonie) is the battle for GC between French and Belgian riders. Since we both have no chance at winning the race, we argue about our riders. It has begun in 2013 with the mighty mano-à-mano between Francis De Greef and Francis Mourey. It culminated last year when Geniez beat the two best Belgian GT riders. And Dupont beats Monfort this year. :D
 
Re: Re:

jaylew said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Biggest disappointment of the Giro: Pozzovivo and Majka

Majka? Did you actually expect more? 4th-8th always seemed (and seems) likely for him.
No not position wise, but I expected him to put his nose into the wind just once. If you're strong enough to finish 5th, you're strong enough to attack. But unfortunately he's developing into the most boring GC rider in the peloton.
 
Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
Escarabajo said:
This win tastes like ****.

I would have been perfectly fine with SK winning. I feel bad for the dutchies but good at the same time, because they have this huge talent in their hands.

I have always been neutral with Nibali and defended him every now and then. But this comeback is BS. And watching him with Vino is garbage. It is like cheering for the mob. It is like cheering for the bad guys.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I feel bad for Chaves but he should be proud of what he did. Now he knows that he can improve and win a GT in the future.

He can't help it that SK hit the snowwall and that Chaves faded.
I can understand your feelings, but keep it in perspective.

Nibali certainly had his luck in GT's, that can't be denied. It's not like he made those riders crash though.
You are right.

I guess those words came out on the heat of the moment.

And to be honest descending is also part of cycling. That is perfectly understandable. I also noticed that Chaves was on antibiotics and coughing a bit yesterday. So he was fading as you said.

Hopefully they will see each other again as contenders. Not sure if Nibali will keep the high form. He has been struggling lately to get that form back.

:)
 
Epic comeback over these last two decisive stages from Nibali. Great team tactics from Astana also. Kangert didn't hold on for long, but he's little bit of work on Lombarda was still crucial.

Nibali deserved to win over Chaves in the end. Kruijswijk was obviously highly unlikely. And who knows, he may never get such a chance to win a GT again.

Oh to be a Dutch supporter. With three stages to go, you would have gotten combined odds of 1000-1 for Dumoulin (last years Vuelta) and Kruijswijk to totally miss out on the podium. But that's cycling.

They can always go back to pinning their hopes on their football team at the World Cup. Then again on second thoughts....

Valverde isn't exactly Mr Popular, but should be applauded; podiums at all three grand tours now; quite an achievement. Like many riders in this race, he can also look back on this Giro and wonder what might have been if he didn't have a bad day. Any of the top four could have easily won this race.

Big shout out to Bob Jungels. After he cracked on stage 13 (a comparitively easy mountain stage) I expected him to lose five plus minutes on the high mountain stages that followed. But he proved that he is a potential GT podium finisher for the future, maybe even at the TDF if they ever go back to having 100kms of relatively flat ITT.

Overall this was a great Giro (Rafal Majka aside). And we can expect an even better field at next years event for the 100th edition. Nibali will attempt to defend his title for starters, I am sure. Would love to see all the top riders try for the Giro, at the expense of the Tour, just this once.
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
jaylew said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Biggest disappointment of the Giro: Pozzovivo and Majka

Majka? Did you actually expect more? 4th-8th always seemed (and seems) likely for him.
No not position wise, but I expected him to put his nose into the wind just once. If you're strong enough to finish 5th, you're strong enough to attack. But unfortunately he's developing into the most boring GC rider in the peloton.
I think he was on the limit most days in the big hills/high mountains and just couldn't attack