- May 14, 2009
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Agree, after Liege we need the next big thing to look forward. Need one ASAP!
Agreed here as well. I think the break between Liege and the Giri feels particularly long, even though we’ve got Romandie, is because it’s a bit of a downer to have the Spring classics come to end an end and haven’t had a GT yet this year, so it seems kind of false-flat stretch where you think your tire pressure is low.
ed. “Giro”
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- Apr 16, 2009
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But I have to pay to read further than the first paragraph! LOL
Well, I have to go to my dark screen to open it.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Wonder how much @Eshnar will charge for his thread this time.
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- Apr 15, 2016
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nah, it's my treat.
I hope you guys are ready for 7500 words of me ****ting on Vegni
- Feb 20, 2012
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Petulant Whiners United shall be open for new members come Giro
- Aug 6, 2010
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- Apr 10, 2019
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Yeah, this year I'm really not feeling the Giro. You know something is wrong when the Blockhaus stage in the first week feels the most like a proper tappone...
The Tirano stage looks at least halfway decent. But the rest is disappointing. A Cogne finish is a about as underwhelming as a Aosta mountain stage can be. Even a Breuil-Cervinia finish would have been at least as good. And a proper Dolomini mountain stage should be longer, contain more climbs and have less valley between the climbs than the Fedaia stage this year. And of course don't finish at Fedaia.
I know in general on this forum you just have to scream that the route sucks. But in general I just think it doesn't and this route offers many possibilities.
For me stage 1,2 are decent opening stages, probably a bit better than what we are used to in grand tours. Although maybe after stage 1 I will think differently if a lot of stress in the peloton turns this into a stage where some contenders are already harmed.
Stage 4 is decent, it is not too good, but it is about as good as can be expected from a GT in the early stages. Etna is not a great finish that often, but at least this finish will already do some damage to would be contenders that aren't actually contenders. So it will ensure that stress levels in the peloton will decline after this day.
Stage 7 could be decent, but of course this early in the race we need a bit of luck with the circumstances. Which is always the case, because most of the time the first week is just about staying in contention no matter which route you throw at the peloton. The same goes for stage 8, which I think isn't that badly designed, and could throw some fireworks, but very likely isn't because of how early it is raced.
Stage 9 with the Blockhaus finish is super nice. I think it could already be raced very hard if some of the good contenders lost some time early on in the race. It is a very opportunity for guys like Yates, Landa, MAL to test the legs, and if they can do some damage to other contenders quite early on the climb this might be raced very nicely.
Stage 12 is also very nice I think. The Monte Becco and subsequent downhill might provide a very good opportunity for some riders to put their competitors under pressure. I can see a very nice setup bij Bahrain with Bilbao and Landa happening here in the downhill,
Stage 14 could be awesome, it has all the potential for it. And it will just depend on how it is raced and which situations will unfold, as is always the case with cycling. But the organizers at least have created a very nice hilly race here where the race can really explode everywhere, causing amazing damage to people not having a good day here. For me starting from stage 14 it seems all guns blazing.
Stage 15 would be the one that is a bit disappointing for me yes. Don't like the Cogne finish too much either. But if a lot of damage is done on stage 14 it might actually be that the race here starts early, on the steeper sections of Verrogne. If their are teams willing to race early on this might already turn out into an unexpected treat for the fans.
Stage 16 is for me a very good Aprica finish. It is obviously not the best side of the Mortirolo, but also this part will not fail to do damage. I think by now the peloton will be very tired and we will see some nice positive and negative surprises happening in the GC on this tough stage. I also like the valley between Mortirolo and Teglio because it provides teams with some tactical options when sending team mates in the break.
Stage 17, could be a bit better, but the Vetriolo/Monte Rovere combination will be very tough on the legs for the riders and it will be very challenging for the riders. But by this time it would be nice if there was at least a small chance of action happening from more than 45km from this finish. Anyhow for me it works that on this day I only need to take 1,5 hours of the watch the excitement.
Stage 19, Kolovrat really seems to be a beast of a climb, so really curious what will happen there. Since it is so late in the race it will have to be raced by the different competitors, and the section after the Kolovrat will provide teams with another stage full of tactical options, which I really love when it happens. Of course it is not really a mano a mano stage probably, so I can understand if some fans are a bit disappointed, but I dont share the feelings.
Stage 20, for me is a great design. Full of opportunities to start racing from the Pellegrino and cause significant changes in the GC on this final mountain stage. Only disappointment might be that they do not have an additional climb early on in the race, but still plenty of possibilities to make it a very long and hard stage. If this would be stage 14 or something it would be badly placed because many riders would be afraid to start early on because of steep sections on the Fedaia, but by now they have to go all-in.
So altogether, as every the riders decide how the race is ridden, but for me the organizers have provided many stages that offer a lot of possibilities for the peloton. I think this race could cause way more excitement than the last GT's I have seen, so I am very much looking forward to this Giro. Might be that I am just always quite positive about the prospect of watching cycling, whereas some here are more positive about the prospect of complaining about the route of a GT.
For me stage 1,2 are decent opening stages, probably a bit better than what we are used to in grand tours. Although maybe after stage 1 I will think differently if a lot of stress in the peloton turns this into a stage where some contenders are already harmed.
Stage 4 is decent, it is not too good, but it is about as good as can be expected from a GT in the early stages. Etna is not a great finish that often, but at least this finish will already do some damage to would be contenders that aren't actually contenders. So it will ensure that stress levels in the peloton will decline after this day.
Stage 7 could be decent, but of course this early in the race we need a bit of luck with the circumstances. Which is always the case, because most of the time the first week is just about staying in contention no matter which route you throw at the peloton. The same goes for stage 8, which I think isn't that badly designed, and could throw some fireworks, but very likely isn't because of how early it is raced.
Stage 9 with the Blockhaus finish is super nice. I think it could already be raced very hard if some of the good contenders lost some time early on in the race. It is a very opportunity for guys like Yates, Landa, MAL to test the legs, and if they can do some damage to other contenders quite early on the climb this might be raced very nicely.
Stage 12 is also very nice I think. The Monte Becco and subsequent downhill might provide a very good opportunity for some riders to put their competitors under pressure. I can see a very nice setup bij Bahrain with Bilbao and Landa happening here in the downhill,
Stage 14 could be awesome, it has all the potential for it. And it will just depend on how it is raced and which situations will unfold, as is always the case with cycling. But the organizers at least have created a very nice hilly race here where the race can really explode everywhere, causing amazing damage to people not having a good day here. For me starting from stage 14 it seems all guns blazing.
Stage 15 would be the one that is a bit disappointing for me yes. Don't like the Cogne finish too much either. But if a lot of damage is done on stage 14 it might actually be that the race here starts early, on the steeper sections of Verrogne. If their are teams willing to race early on this might already turn out into an unexpected treat for the fans.
Stage 16 is for me a very good Aprica finish. It is obviously not the best side of the Mortirolo, but also this part will not fail to do damage. I think by now the peloton will be very tired and we will see some nice positive and negative surprises happening in the GC on this tough stage. I also like the valley between Mortirolo and Teglio because it provides teams with some tactical options when sending team mates in the break.
Stage 17, could be a bit better, but the Vetriolo/Monte Rovere combination will be very tough on the legs for the riders and it will be very challenging for the riders. But by this time it would be nice if there was at least a small chance of action happening from more than 45km from this finish. Anyhow for me it works that on this day I only need to take 1,5 hours of the watch the excitement.
Stage 19, Kolovrat really seems to be a beast of a climb, so really curious what will happen there. Since it is so late in the race it will have to be raced by the different competitors, and the section after the Kolovrat will provide teams with another stage full of tactical options, which I really love when it happens. Of course it is not really a mano a mano stage probably, so I can understand if some fans are a bit disappointed, but I dont share the feelings.
Stage 20, for me is a great design. Full of opportunities to start racing from the Pellegrino and cause significant changes in the GC on this final mountain stage. Only disappointment might be that they do not have an additional climb early on in the race, but still plenty of possibilities to make it a very long and hard stage. If this would be stage 14 or something it would be badly placed because many riders would be afraid to start early on because of steep sections on the Fedaia, but by now they have to go all-in.
So altogether, as every the riders decide how the race is ridden, but for me the organizers have provided many stages that offer a lot of possibilities for the peloton. I think this race could cause way more excitement than the last GT's I have seen, so I am very much looking forward to this Giro. Might be that I am just always quite positive about the prospect of watching cycling, whereas some here are more positive about the prospect of complaining about the route of a GT.
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- Jun 11, 2021
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Make that the first two weeks...
I just re-checked the stages and jesus, there's barely anything happening until stage 14, did they change a few stages? I don't remember being that disappointed when they released the route. It's basically 5 minutes fun on stage 1, ITT, the usual 20 minutes action on Etna with tiny gaps and the Blockhaus stage. Rest is uneventful breakaway territory or mass sprint.
Last week will be good but the first two weeks are a huge letdown for my enthusiasm of the first GT of the year.
The route doesn't suck, it just mediocre in general GT and Giro context. But you could actually say it sucks when you consider the potentital for designing good stages in Italy.
And coudn't disagree more on this. It is 90 % certain that nothing will happen until the last 5 km on Fedaia. This is actually close to being the worst way to design a Dolomite stage.
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I think it is a bit better than the route we got presented in recent editions. Obviously I would cheer for a Zomegnan type of route as well, but that was a different era. So you can always rate the route with very high expectations and the wrong benchmark, and it will always leave you disappointed.
Instead for me, it is better to just look at the possibilities a route offers, and see which stages might potentially be interesting. And doing it like that I see a GT with a very decent number of stages that might actually deliver very nice racing.
- Nov 6, 2020
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- Feb 20, 2012
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Where are the mods ban this heathenI know in general on this forum you just have to scream that the route sucks. But in general I just think it doesn't and this route offers many possibilities.
For me stage 1,2 are decent opening stages, probably a bit better than what we are used to in grand tours. Although maybe after stage 1 I will think differently if a lot of stress in the peloton turns this into a stage where some contenders are already harmed.
Stage 4 is decent, it is not too good, but it is about as good as can be expected from a GT in the early stages. Etna is not a great finish that often, but at least this finish will already do some damage to would be contenders that aren't actually contenders. So it will ensure that stress levels in the peloton will decline after this day.
Stage 7 could be decent, but of course this early in the race we need a bit of luck with the circumstances. Which is always the case, because most of the time the first week is just about staying in contention no matter which route you throw at the peloton. The same goes for stage 8, which I think isn't that badly designed, and could throw some fireworks, but very likely isn't because of how early it is raced.
Stage 9 with the Blockhaus finish is super nice. I think it could already be raced very hard if some of the good contenders lost some time early on in the race. It is a very opportunity for guys like Yates, Landa, MAL to test the legs, and if they can do some damage to other contenders quite early on the climb this might be raced very nicely.
Stage 12 is also very nice I think. The Monte Becco and subsequent downhill might provide a very good opportunity for some riders to put their competitors under pressure. I can see a very nice setup bij Bahrain with Bilbao and Landa happening here in the downhill,
Stage 14 could be awesome, it has all the potential for it. And it will just depend on how it is raced and which situations will unfold, as is always the case with cycling. But the organizers at least have created a very nice hilly race here where the race can really explode everywhere, causing amazing damage to people not having a good day here. For me starting from stage 14 it seems all guns blazing.
Stage 15 would be the one that is a bit disappointing for me yes. Don't like the Cogne finish too much either. But if a lot of damage is done on stage 14 it might actually be that the race here starts early, on the steeper sections of Verrogne. If their are teams willing to race early on this might already turn out into an unexpected treat for the fans.
Stage 16 is for me a very good Aprica finish. It is obviously not the best side of the Mortirolo, but also this part will not fail to do damage. I think by now the peloton will be very tired and we will see some nice positive and negative surprises happening in the GC on this tough stage. I also like the valley between Mortirolo and Teglio because it provides teams with some tactical options when sending team mates in the break.
Stage 17, could be a bit better, but the Vetriolo/Monte Rovere combination will be very tough on the legs for the riders and it will be very challenging for the riders. But by this time it would be nice if there was at least a small chance of action happening from more than 45km from this finish. Anyhow for me it works that on this day I only need to take 1,5 hours of the watch the excitement.
Stage 19, Kolovrat really seems to be a beast of a climb, so really curious what will happen there. Since it is so late in the race it will have to be raced by the different competitors, and the section after the Kolovrat will provide teams with another stage full of tactical options, which I really love when it happens. Of course it is not really a mano a mano stage probably, so I can understand if some fans are a bit disappointed, but I dont share the feelings.
Stage 20, for me is a great design. Full of opportunities to start racing from the Pellegrino and cause significant changes in the GC on this final mountain stage. Only disappointment might be that they do not have an additional climb early on in the race, but still plenty of possibilities to make it a very long and hard stage. If this would be stage 14 or something it would be badly placed because many riders would be afraid to start early on because of steep sections on the Fedaia, but by now they have to go all-in.
So altogether, as every the riders decide how the race is ridden, but for me the organizers have provided many stages that offer a lot of possibilities for the peloton. I think this race could cause way more excitement than the last GT's I have seen, so I am very much looking forward to this Giro. Might be that I am just always quite positive about the prospect of watching cycling, whereas some here are more positive about the prospect of complaining about the route of a GT.
- Aug 6, 2010
- 6,884
- 6,216
- 23,180
I know in general on this forum you just have to scream that the route sucks. But in general I just think it doesn't and this route offers many possibilities.
For me stage 1,2 are decent opening stages, probably a bit better than what we are used to in grand tours. Although maybe after stage 1 I will think differently if a lot of stress in the peloton turns this into a stage where some contenders are already harmed.
Stage 4 is decent, it is not too good, but it is about as good as can be expected from a GT in the early stages. Etna is not a great finish that often, but at least this finish will already do some damage to would be contenders that aren't actually contenders. So it will ensure that stress levels in the peloton will decline after this day.
Stage 7 could be decent, but of course this early in the race we need a bit of luck with the circumstances. Which is always the case, because most of the time the first week is just about staying in contention no matter which route you throw at the peloton. The same goes for stage 8, which I think isn't that badly designed, and could throw some fireworks, but very likely isn't because of how early it is raced.
Stage 9 with the Blockhaus finish is super nice. I think it could already be raced very hard if some of the good contenders lost some time early on in the race. It is a very opportunity for guys like Yates, Landa, MAL to test the legs, and if they can do some damage to other contenders quite early on the climb this might be raced very nicely.
Stage 12 is also very nice I think. The Monte Becco and subsequent downhill might provide a very good opportunity for some riders to put their competitors under pressure. I can see a very nice setup bij Bahrain with Bilbao and Landa happening here in the downhill,
Stage 14 could be awesome, it has all the potential for it. And it will just depend on how it is raced and which situations will unfold, as is always the case with cycling. But the organizers at least have created a very nice hilly race here where the race can really explode everywhere, causing amazing damage to people not having a good day here. For me starting from stage 14 it seems all guns blazing.
Stage 15 would be the one that is a bit disappointing for me yes. Don't like the Cogne finish too much either. But if a lot of damage is done on stage 14 it might actually be that the race here starts early, on the steeper sections of Verrogne. If their are teams willing to race early on this might already turn out into an unexpected treat for the fans.
Stage 16 is for me a very good Aprica finish. It is obviously not the best side of the Mortirolo, but also this part will not fail to do damage. I think by now the peloton will be very tired and we will see some nice positive and negative surprises happening in the GC on this tough stage. I also like the valley between Mortirolo and Teglio because it provides teams with some tactical options when sending team mates in the break.
Stage 17, could be a bit better, but the Vetriolo/Monte Rovere combination will be very tough on the legs for the riders and it will be very challenging for the riders. But by this time it would be nice if there was at least a small chance of action happening from more than 45km from this finish. Anyhow for me it works that on this day I only need to take 1,5 hours of the watch the excitement.
Stage 19, Kolovrat really seems to be a beast of a climb, so really curious what will happen there. Since it is so late in the race it will have to be raced by the different competitors, and the section after the Kolovrat will provide teams with another stage full of tactical options, which I really love when it happens. Of course it is not really a mano a mano stage probably, so I can understand if some fans are a bit disappointed, but I dont share the feelings.
Stage 20, for me is a great design. Full of opportunities to start racing from the Pellegrino and cause significant changes in the GC on this final mountain stage. Only disappointment might be that they do not have an additional climb early on in the race, but still plenty of possibilities to make it a very long and hard stage. If this would be stage 14 or something it would be badly placed because many riders would be afraid to start early on because of steep sections on the Fedaia, but by now they have to go all-in.
So altogether, as every the riders decide how the race is ridden, but for me the organizers have provided many stages that offer a lot of possibilities for the peloton. I think this race could cause way more excitement than the last GT's I have seen, so I am very much looking forward to this Giro. Might be that I am just always quite positive about the prospect of watching cycling, whereas some here are more positive about the prospect of complaining about the route of a GT.
A glass half full forum member I see.
You're as rare a find as a lengthy ITT!
The problem is that this route doesn't deliver a lot of opportunities for good racing. The stages to Blockhaus, Turin and Aprica are good or fairly good. The last week stages to Lavarone, Castelmonte and Fedaia are mediocre at best. It will create action the last 3-5 km, but no more. The main issue is that Italy and Giro offers a lot of opportunities for creating stages where you can attack from further out than a few km. I don't expect a dozen stages like this every year, but at least a 2-3 hilly/medium mountain stages and a couple of big mountain stages of this type should be possible. Right now we have one or perhaps to hilly/medium mountain stages and only one big mountain stage.
I think you are wrong. I think we will see some decent action on stage 12 to Genova. Maybe a late attack on the Brocco, but then with an exciting downhill to follow things up. I also disagree with the assumption that Castelmonte and Fedaia will be raced only in the last km's for sure. It will depend a bit on the GC and how strong the pink yerseysholders team is of course. But I think we are quite likely to see some action from far out. And I think the same might apply for stage 16 to Aprica even.
Obviously you always need some ingredients to get that kind of racing. There should be some good riders/teams which are already quite a bit ahead in GC, and the leaders teams should not be too strong. But for example if you look at Giro 2020 the last two mountain stages where on paper much more underwhelming than in this years edition (with Sestriere) but ultimately delivered very nice racing for me. Even with a fluke winner, that of course is a disaster.
- Jun 11, 2021
- 2,185
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- 11,180
I don't worry about the final 7 stages. Last week of the Giro always delivers even with mediocre stage designs, big climbs, fatigue, throw in bad weather often makes for big gaps. It's the first two weeks that will be a big slugfest, you need a lot of imagination to see GC action on stage 7 or 12. There's like 100km to go after Bocco, who the hell will go for a descent attack there?
I meant Monte Becco. Stupid organizers who put in two climbs with a similar name in one stage.
But it seems that PCS still has the wrong profile, and the Monte Becco has actually been removed. So my analysis of stage 12 is wrong.
- Apr 10, 2019
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Don't sleep on the Lavarone stage, it could be good and comes right after the hard Aprica stage. We could see really big gaps on that one.
I like stage 7, but overall the route gives me 2014 Giro vibes. Switching up stage 19 and stage 20 would already improve this one a lot, make the final TT twice as long and we can at least talk about it being a bit more balanced (it would still be a really climber friendly route).
The hilly stages during the first 2 weeks will probably benefit a lot from Van der Poel racing the Giro.
Becco has the profile under. The most difficult section is a 3 km, 8 % section over 22 km of flat and descent before the finish. This makes it pretty unlikely to anything special will happen. And Genova is surrounded by hilly and lower mountains, so it woudn't be difficult to create a 220-230 km medium mountain stage.
As stated above, I'm at least 90 % certain that the Fedaia stage will end up with an attack the last 5 km. Pordoi is too easy and there is too much valley between to create much action earlier on the stage.
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