Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 2: San Francesco al Campo – Santuario di Oropa (Biella), 161.0 km

[Ripper]

Also there are more than 2 muscles in the human leg.

Also, umm, I don't think all the riders Sam noted started on, umm, the boards

 

[Potomac]

I thought this was the stage two thread.

 

[Lequack]

Lanterne rouge podcast with Patrick and Benji

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJf7D04ROg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787170128229982237

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1787170128229982237

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Lanterne rouge podcast with Patrick and Benji

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJf7D04ROg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787170128229982237

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1787170128229982237

Shock horror how did he survive without a computer?? Then again, Velon have to post something when they have no power data.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Lanterne rouge podcast with Patrick and Benji

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJf7D04ROg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787170128229982237

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1787170128229982237

who needs them. anyway

i used to have a simple sigma that fell off the bike half the time. just go by feeling

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It was a long day: mountain trek and the Giro. I was about 2 km from the line. When we saw on a screen that Il Campionissimo attacked the excitement wa through the roof and we were waiting. Teddy's passage was a moment. Compared to amateurs, its Ferrari vs Fiat. Wow. I had more time to see later groups which were much slower. All those guys are so small live (some look almost like kids), even Ganna doesnt look big! I wont call him 100 kilo guy anymore!

New item by Krzysztof Ostrowski

photos.app.goo.gl

New item by Krzysztof Ostrowski

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[samhocking]

Tactically, though, the mass start events are more immediately transferable to road, with the need to respond to moves, keep an eye on the riders around you, place yourself relative to rivals, and go from riding at less than 100% to full gas in the blink of an eye, plus the occasional pursuit-like effort to gain a lap.

While the aerobics of max effort IP might have some transferability, the time at threshold in the IP is minimal compared to the kind of climbs we're talking here. Four minutes of threshold might explain why Thomas could muscle his way up the Alto do Malhão, but that's very different from, say, Rettenbachferner.

It's like comparing the XC sprint to the 30/50. While they are both very much events within an endurance sport, one is about maintaining threshold for a short period of time, the other is about timed threshold bursts within a much longer event. Most road events are long distances with short threshold bursts which is why more roadies who also do track tend to do points, scratch, madison, and those who do IP/TP tend to be more rouleurs and time triallists in the first instance, and current parcours trends are marginalising that type in terms of major stage racing potential (which is something you don't bring into account when you run through the prior elite riders with track experience, notwithstanding that all of them were road racers in parallel with track rather than track specialists and during the Cold War era when the landscape was very different and the field much shallower). Obviously track sprinters seldom convert to the road because the body type required for keirin and match sprinting is counterintuitive to the needs of road cycling, and the one obvious transfer to point to - Theo Bos - was somebody who could be the fastest if he made it to the finish, but just making it to the finish to contest the sprint was a challenge for him most of the time.

To train for pursuit you don't just ride 4km Libertine, that's not how it works. As I explained, the training load to be a good Pursuit rider entering into an Olympic games is comparable to racing 3 weeks in a Grand Tour. ie the calorific load, the fatigue created, the aerobic threshold needed is the same or greater. The 3/4km of competition at the end of all that training load and fatigue is simply the net result of how good you are at moving oxygen and clearing lactate exactly as it woud be for climbing alpe duez from bottom to top in the fastest way, which is at threshold exactly the same physiology needed. It's why a rider like Tarling can go from 4km in a Pursuit final to smashing a 50km ITT in World Tour off no specific training. It's the same aerobic capacity., you just burn more calories doing it over 50km TT or up a mountain Pursuit weight negates threshold somewhat.
A big part of Pursuit racing is also the science of understanding how lactate and fatigue builds between days/rounds. This challenge is the same in stage racing too, it's why all teams put so much effort into understanding this. When Sky came in they were already fully aware how Wiggins body will react over 3 weeks GT racing because he already matched that load in training and they already had strategies to deal with it and data to prove he would cope with the fatigue.
Of course beyond all this. Wiggins and Thomas were racing full seasons on the road for 3 out of 4 year cycles, but clearly you're not gonna be dropping weight for no reason on the Olympic Program, you need that weight for launching the pursuit. That first 30-90s of anaerobic effort is all about muscle power and so arms, shoulders and back all have to be developed to maintain that launch speed. A GT weight Wiggins or Thomas would still be very fast, but the launch wouldn't, you don't need upper body power to climb a mountain you only need the leg and aerobic capacity of the pursuit.

re. Bos, he wasn't an Endurance track rider, he was Sprint & Kieren, so anaerobic capacity is what made him good not aerobic like pursuit, tt or climbing mountains. You could view him the opposite of Wiggins & Thomas on the anaerobic v aerobic physiology gifts awarded when born. ie Wiggins & Thomas have the aerobic capacity to reach the finish of a very hard climb, but they can't sprint to the line for toffee. An exception to that would be Pogacar and Roglic, they are more like a Wiggins & Bos combined. Why Roglic plays his entire GC strategy on time bonuses and sprinting in the MTFs of GTs because his data shows he has that anaerobic finish even ontop of an aerobic threshold.

 

[iBanesto]

What is the point of O'Connor trying to follow Pogacar? What is he expecting Pogacar to just surge for 20-50 metres and he will follow?

A wasted effort.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

re. Bos, he wasn't an Endurance track rider, he was Sprint & Kieren, so anaerobic capacity is what made him good not aerobic like pursuit, tt or climbing mountains. You could view him the opposite of Wiggins & Thomas on the anaerobic v aerobic physiology gifts awarded when born. ie Wiggins & Thomas have the aerobic capacity to reach the finish of a very hard climb, but they can't sprint to the line for toffee. An exception to that would be Pogacar and Roglic, they are more like a Wiggins & Bos combined. Why Roglic plays his entire GC strategy on time bonuses and sprinting in the MTFs of GTs.

I literally posted that Bos was different because he came from match sprinting and why that was an issue compared to other track converts coming from the endurance disciplines.

Thanks for proving that you have no intention of reading, though.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Lanterne rouge podcast with Patrick and Benji

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJf7D04ROg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787170128229982237

View: https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/1787170128229982237

ZOMG!
How was even able to pedal without a computer?
Strange days.

 

[samhocking]

I literally posted that Bos was different because he came from match sprinting and why that was an issue compared to other track converts coming from the endurance disciplines.

Thanks for proving that you have no intention of reading, though.

I was agreeing with you by saying he wasn't an endurance track rider, I didn't just guess you were talking about Bos lol, I read every word and added Roglic for context he's like both riders combined.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was agreeing with you by saying he wasn't an endurance track rider, I didn't just guess you were talking about Bos lol, I read every word and added Roglic for context he's like both riders combined.

Obviously you didn't 'guess' I was talking about Bos because he was explicitly mentioned in both mine and your posts, but your first sentence about him read like you were making a correction.

 

[Netserk]

It was a long day: mountain trek and the Giro. I was about 2 km from the line. When we saw on a screen that Il Campionissimo attacked the excitement wa through the roof and we were waiting. Teddy's passage was a moment. Compared to amateurs, its Ferrari vs Fiat. Wow. I had more time to see later groups which were much slower. All those guys are so small live (some look almost like kids), even Ganna doesnt look big! I wont call him 100 kilo guy anymore!

New item by Krzysztof Ostrowski

photos.app.goo.gl

New item by Krzysztof Ostrowski

photos.app.goo.gl

Luts!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What is the point of O'Connor trying to follow Pogacar? What is he expecting Pogacar to just surge for 20-50 metres and he will follow?

A wasted effort.

Thats what Connor expected. A short interval by Pogi plus he overestimated his good feeling. What is Z(n) for Teddy is Z(n+1) for most pros and Z(2*n) for mere mortals.

 

[iBanesto]

Thats what Connor expected. A short interval by Pogi plus he overestimated his good feeling. What is Z(n) for Teddy is Z(n+1) for most pros and Z(2*n) for mere mortals.

O’Connor had spoken before this Giro of his desire to go toe to toe with Pogačar, and he was as good as his word here.

‘I’ll try not to make that mistake again’ – Ben O’Connor pays price for Pogačar pursuit at Giro d’Italia

Australian loses ground at Oropa after being the last man to resist the favourite

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Froome]

What would happen if @Froome was here.

What happened on Oropa is what i was talking since Vuelta Catalunya. Pogacar did not prove until now that he is stronger than last year.

He did 6.7 w/kg in 17 min 30 s. He did the same perfomance he did on Col Marie blanque 2023.

He would get absolutely beaten by Vingegaard in this Giro. This version of Pogacar would also lose against Roglic.