Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2025 stage 20: Verrès – Sestrière, 205 km

[EddyMazzoleni]

I rewatched the race and I think that Yates was stronger than I realised. After Carapaz second big attack the duo is like 30 meters behind Yates, and even though Carapaz is pulling hard, they cannot close the gap, then they stop. Then at the top Carapaz start pacing in the last 2 km and he gains 20 sec with an acceleration but then thay stagnates between 1:38 and 1:43, even though they had spent more time in the wheel of Gee. Maybe Del Toro could have done more on the climb, but the only extended period when he stayed at the front actually trying was 1-2 km into the dirt road and honestly he was not looking so incisive.

 

[E_F_]

"Today will be known as the day you almost caught Captain Jack Sparrow won the Giro d'Italia"

You'll have to excuse me, but I don't remember that quote. I had to have the Danish subtitles read out me when I watched that, I think.

 

[proffate]

I'm pretty sure Yates would have won even without Wout. (Not to take anything away from Wout's performance.) But the fact that he was in the right place at the right time to slam the door shut on the chasers must have completely demoralized them when tempers were already inflamed. I think he definitely compelled IDT/UAE to pivot to riding for second much earlier than he would have.

 

[Red Rick]

I rewatched the race and I think that Yates was stronger than I realised. After Carapaz second big attack the duo is like 30 meters behind Yates, and even though Carapaz is pulling hard, they cannot close the gap, then they stop. Then at the top Carapaz start pacing in the last 2 km and he gains 20 sec with an acceleration but then thay stagnates between 1:38 and 1:43, even though they had spent more time in the wheel of Gee. Maybe Del Toro could have done more on the climb, but the only extended period when he stayed at the front actually trying was 1-2 km into the dirt road and honestly he was not looking so incisive.

If you rewatch, the argument that Carapaz or Del Toro could have just pulled him back fall really flat.

 

[E_F_]

If you rewatch, the argument that Carapaz or Del Toro could have just pulled him back fall really flat.

IDT only needed like 20 sec at one point, though...

 

[42x16ss]

Del Toro should have gotten off his bike at the foot of the final climb and started signing autographs. Just to rub it into Carapaz

 

[42x16ss]

Good on Yates. If they're going to ride like total fwits you have to punish them

 

[dazaau]

@noob I don't know if you are trying to be as nice as @Sandisfan is, but thank you so much.

I know, twice the usual and underserved love! We are blessed today and not to just to witness such a great stage 😅

 

[fbjim]

If people continue to drone on about this route being terrible, it's definitive proof that the actual race does not matter one bit to the enjoyment of those people - the judgment is passed on the day of the route reveal and the opinion is set in stone.

once again, another massive W for the "riders make the race" crew over PWU. can we ever stop winning

 

[topcat]

What an absolutely amazing victory for del Toro today ... over Carapaz. That will show him.

 

[topcat]

If you rewatch, the argument that Carapaz or Del Toro could have just pulled him back fall really flat.

They could have pulled him back together but that would have required attitude adjustments.

 

[E_F_]

once again, another massive W for the "riders make the race" crew over PWU. can we ever stop winning

On the one stage we all said was well designed? If the route didn't matter then why didn't they make the race on stage 19?

 

[Fatclimber]

Respect to Wout, brilliant effort and extreme selflessness. The epitome of a teammate. Has there been any footage of Yates and Van Aert meeting after the finish?

 

[Skalman]

There was a point when Carapaz and Del Toro was really close to Yates, not more that 15-20 metres. At that point Carapaz slowed down, I really thought Del Toro would bridge the gap to Yates then , it was his best chance if he had. The dynamic would have been completely different then. Maybe Yates would have attacked again, but maybe not. I guess Del Toro simply didnt have it.

 

[zlev11]

On the one stage we all said was well designed? If the route didn't matter then why didn't they make the race on stage 19?

its wild how all the stages we said were badly designed sucked and all the ones we said were good designs were awesome

 

[Sciatic]

What other times in a GT has the 3rd place rider going into the final (non-procession) stage leapfrogged to the overall GC win?

 

[dazaau]

Of all the craziness that happened in the climb, the true tactical disaster from EF and UAE was letting the beak with Wout in it, and no one from their teams, have 10min at the base of the climb.

If they had made it just 6 min then Jumbo's master plan doesn't work.

 

[Cookster15]

What other times in a GT has the 3rd place rider going into the final (non-procession) stage leapfrogged to the overall GC win?

Not sure about 3rd place but Carlos Sastre leaped from 4th to the yellow jersey on stage 17 of the 2008 Tour (Alpe d’Huez).

 

[Extinction]

I think he was on the limit, and his (bolded) statement (I assume it's correct but I haven't heard it yet) maps well to that supposition. You don't want to go into the red with 9k left on Finestre and Sestrieres still to come.

I think if he wasn't on the limit, he'd have done exactly as you suggested, a quick acceleration to drop Carapaz and follow Yates. He'd done that several times when feeling good during this race.

People do get tired in bike races. Tired = mistakes, both physical and mental.

He said something to that effect in an Italian interview, but, yea, he probably was near limit. Although, with one day to go, you'd think del Toro would have emptied himself to try to save the jersey. Instead, probably at the moment he did not try to close on Yates, if not before, he already decided to race to ensure second place. Personally, I'd rather have seen him go all in to win the Giro, at the risk of losing the podium, than to race for second when so close to glory.

 

[proffate]

Yates did clearly an amazing performance, still I wonder why Ef were trying to launch Finestre like it was Redoute or something like that. I think they somewhat cooked Carapaz by doing that.

I think they wanted to isolate del Toro asap and just assumed carapaz would grind his way to the top faster than a solo del Toro.

 

[Extinction]

View: https://youtu.be/n_LQhzDLwSA?si=L-j3DqN-J0E0be7V

 

[Oldman]

OK here at the initial stages, starting watching the stage for the second time in a row, there's room for further considerations.

While things went on before my eyes, thought about how the stage would have ended up, if Mikkel Honoré had not eyed a gap behind, hence a full pull leadout to Carapaz, shortly into Finistre.
After that, it was according to the EF plan to let Carapaz do what he do best; attack Del Toro.
And then the nature of the race and the fiery temper, the situation the two between was locked.
I would venture the claim that Del Toro over 18km Finistre was loosing time, compared to Yates, well helped by non-uniform ride with plenty attacks in Carapaz-Del Toro group, compared to Yates steady full pull to the top.

Ofc Yates got easy seconds in stall mate games down behind. But even when Carapaz pulled over longer sections, Yates pulled away from them where it started to hurt.

But in my eyes, that is the inner logic of the race; Carapaz must use his weapon against Del Toro. He tried hard from the bottom of the climb. He made sure of several counterattacks.

Here it's easy to be wise in hindsight.

I think not only EF but most people expected Del Toro to crack up Finistre with bombardmrns of Carapaz attacks. Should EF really have invested in driving a bus for Del Toro to the throne until the last 2-3 kilometers of Finistre? Knowing that UAE would very well have the upper hand afterwards towards Sestrieres?

I just managed to watch the action from 100km out. EF started the push there and let it drag for 20km. No one of significance was distanced aside from the building sprinter gruppeto. Carapaz was back and forth to the car, jumping around his doms who are pulling what appears to be hard, for them. They're tired and you still have 80 km to go. Richie deciding at that point (did someone in the car encourage him?) to apply unilateral effort was completely useless. When the Yates' gap became of concern I think he was done, physically. Del Toro was stalling because he was tired and he expected more aggression. At the point he didn't take up the chase at all he proved he was a Neo-Pro both physically and tactically. The last 2-3 kms were academic tactics with no assets. Colossal collapse by two teams who snatched defeat from a hard fought triumph.
Cheers to Yates. He went all in and gets the reward!

 

[JohnWayne]

I think riders hugely overestimate the benefits of drafting on a climb as steep as Finestre. The difference in watts between pulling and following is in single digits. Riders seem to fear pulling their rivals even if it doesn’t really matter.

Yates keeping a steady pace vs. Carapaz and Del Toro playing cat and mouse makes a big difference in climb time. Maybe the duo used even more energy than Yates given their suboptimal pacing and a loss of only ~1.40 at the top?

Hard to know the definite answer, but I’m convinced that hard attacks and hard responses are utterly stupid on a climb this steep. I mean, the pace is slower than on a marathon race. Do the marathon runners create gaps by full-on sprints? Well, no. That would be hilariously stupid. Much more efficient to go fast with a pace you can sustain.

 

[Oldman]

What other times in a GT has the 3rd place rider going into the final (non-procession) stage leapfrogged to the overall GC win?

I think Lemond did something like that: after spotting the Badger a big lead following team orders.

 

[Oldman]

I think riders hugely overestimate the benefits of drafting on a climb as steep as Finestre. The difference in watts between pulling and following is in single digits. Riders seem to fear pulling their rivals even if it doesn’t really matter.

Yates keeping a steady pace vs. Carapaz and Del Toro playing cat and mouse makes a big difference in climb time. Maybe the duo used even more energy than Yates given their suboptimal pacing and a loss of only ~1.40 at the top?

Hard to know the definite answer, but I’m convinced that hard attacks and hard responses are utterly stupid on a climb this steep. I mean, the pace is slower than on a marathon race. Do the marathon runners create gaps by full-on sprints? Well, no. That would be hilariously stupid. Much more efficient to go fast with a pace you can sustain.

What?
Unless there is a headwind there is no disadvantage to set a tempo that allows response to those behind you. Psychologically it can screw with a tired rider, for sure but physics don't change when you're at under 20km/hr. You prove the point when describing Yates' advantage of climbing alone.