Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2025 stage 20: Verrès – Sestrière, 205 km

[Krzysztof_O]

I just hope one day the Tour will decide to include Finestre and it will become an icon of 2 GTs. Its location is perfect for that.

 

[theyoungest]

The only way to prevent the sort of stuff we saw yesterday on Finestre from happening would be for commissaires to intervene if the rider dropped from the breakaway paces a rider from another team for no reason (especially a GC rider fighting for the overall). But how would you police that? It's almost impossible.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, that's impossible to police as you say. And it's cycling, it's what separates bike racing from most other sports: it's an individual sport, but also a team sport, but you can also help another individual, or help another team, or decide not to... you shouldn't even want to remove that aspect.

But I just say what I saw on that climb: Mosca's little pull was pretty decisive.

 

[Cycling111]

Carapaz's attitude has been so praisedm and UAE's poor performance has been so criticized, that it has gone unnoticed that Carapaz's attack is a serious mistake. Because he attacked as if Simon were five minutes away from him. The reality is that Simon was at the same distance from Carapaz as Carapaz was from Del Toro.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I just managed to watch the action from 100km out. EF started the push there and let it drag for 20km. No one of significance was distanced aside from the building sprinter gruppeto. Carapaz was back and forth to the car, jumping around his doms who are pulling what appears to be hard, for them. They're tired and you still have 80 km to go. Richie deciding at that point (did someone in the car encourage him?) to apply unilateral effort was completely useless. When the Yates' gap became of concern I think he was done, physically. Del Toro was stalling because he was tired and he expected more aggression. At the point he didn't take up the chase at all he proved he was a Neo-Pro both physically and tactically. The last 2-3 kms were academic tactics with no assets. Colossal collapse by two teams who snatched defeat from a hard fought triumph.
Cheers to Yates. He went all in and gets the reward!

Very much inline with your POV after having watched 2nd time. Watching it first time EF's looked like waste, but my thought was they would still be overwhelmed by UAE at Finistre. Your point about Carapaz, however, using way too much foolish energy at plenty kilometres runup before his attack from the bottom of the monster climb, I agree completely. Acting like superman about to crunch evil forces.

 

[Divergence]

He had to come up with plan C or plan D after he multiple errors. He made exactly the right finishing move 2 days in a row after rookie mistakes. If Carapaz was going to out class him, he had to save his reserves. Did he have the juice to chase down a flying Yates brother? Yates didn't think so, Del Toro didn't think so,
if Del Toro would have gambled on extended chase of Yates, with Wonderful Wout pulling him almost to death ,time gaps were way too close, if Del Toro fails, and blows up, he could end up being lucky for top 10, he did the most with what he had,
Carapaz physically and mentally beaten by 21 year old 2 days in a row. Del Toro with respectable 2nd place in second year, in second grand tour..Carapaz won in 2019 and it keeps eluding him year after year, this year included at 32 years old.
For me he should have been the one going do or die on the chase.. Del Toro had multiple screw ups per day, today included, but for him to adopt what Carapaz considered to be a smart race strategy would be silly.
And it shouldn't be lost on race fans, that Carapaz gave more respect for Del Toro abilities than he did to Yates..Yates..grand tour winner, has GT GC podium, has done 17 grand tours!!
Richard was watching wrong race horse!! Certainly can't blame brand new Del Toro!!

IDT benefited from a very soft route this Giro and, because he is a good climber on short hills, he was sprinting all over the place. Maybe all those were good moves but if it meant that he could not follow Yates because of that then those were bad moves.
Another thing is that I notice this forum gives IDT waaaay to much of a pass because he is just 21 years old. I mean, come on he is 21 not 12. Anybody who has raced a bike even a little bit, heck, anybody who has watched a little bit of cycling, understands that if Yates summits the climb with more than 15 seconds with Wout waiting for him, the Giro is pretty much over.
It was not that hard for IDT to decide what to do. Initially go with Carapaz, that is fine. Then if Yates gets more than 30s he had to go to the front and try to get back to him. If that ment that he lost the Giro to Carapaz then so be it, at least he tried. This way he looked ridiculous out there, just floundering. I do not think I have ever seen someone in a leader's jersey give up and not even try like that. I think this might haunt him for a long time.

What other times in a GT has the 3rd place rider going into the final (non-procession) stage leapfrogged to the overall GC win?

I guess they could put 19 sprint stages and make the 20th a MTF and we will see even more perturbations on the last day. GTs should be about going over multiple big mountains imho. Soft routes like this one are a receipt for crashes and meek riders fighting for pink.

 

[Red Rick]

I just hope one day the Tour will decide to include Finestre and it will become an icon of 2 GTs. Its location is perfect for that.

Do you have any idea how sad I am at the missed opportunity for the Vuelta to throw it in this year?

Also, because it's La Vuelta, you know they would manage to make it Unipuerto MTF.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Do you have any idea how sad I am at the missed opportunity for the Vuelta to throw it in this year?

Also, because it's La Vuelta, you know they would manage to make it Unipuerto MTF.

Turin - Finestre would be a nice opening stage! Or prologue ITT: Susa - Finestre, to set the GC a bit and avoid nervous stages

 

[Libertine Seguros]

My takeaway is it was a harsh lesson for everyone who believes bike racing is a matter of watts + mythical handling skills. Yesterday we saw one of the underrated aspects of bike racing in the form of the question what do you do when you're fighting your rivals without teammates on an 18km HC col?

The problem is that with the increasing Premier Leagueification and the concentration of such a large number of the strongest riders into the same few teams, the isolation happens less frequently, hence the (often kinda doomer) perception of it all being a watts game. Not exactly helped by many riders holding and propagating the belief that essentially all they need to do is the bicycle equivalent of point and squirt driving and any crashes or incidents that occur as a product of this are the organiser's fault (hi Matteo!).

 

[AnotherArmChair]

The other G is right here ...del Toro but more importantly UAE lost the Giro

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928916334840049838

View: https://x.com/Watts_Occurring/status/1928916334840049838

 

[Gratemans]

Carapaz's attitude has been so praisedm and UAE's poor performance has been so criticized, that it has gone unnoticed that Carapaz's attack is a serious mistake. Because he attacked as if Simon were five minutes away from him. The reality is that Simon was at the same distance from Carapaz as Carapaz was from Del Toro.

It hasn't gone unnoticed though: a lot of people here already said it was a mistake.

 

[Red Rick]

The other G is right here ...del Toro but more importantly UAE lost the Giro

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928916334840049838

View: https://x.com/Watts_Occurring/status/1928916334840049838

Yates destroying everyon one Finestre, Thomas with a good take. Is it opposite week?

 

[Cycling111]

With the watts Simon deployed yesterday in Fineste, he would´vve finished with Remco or even better than him in PDB. His climb was impressive.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They could have pulled him back together but that would have required attitude adjustments.

Riders don't do enough attitude camps these days.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Brave man.

He is literally risking my mindless devotion to him.

Underrated post.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It has never looked better for Simon Yates

Great early call after he had been temporarily dropped.

As many have said, if they had known how strong Yates was they would have been better to ride conservatively and keep EF and UAE domestiques for as long as possible (but both Carapaz and Del Toro were too solely focused on each other).

That, plus Del Toro not choosing or not being able to take over from Carapaz when they got back to within 10 seconds of Yates later, were key.

Well, and Wout being up the road obviously.

 

[TastyGroceries]

What other times in a GT has the 3rd place rider going into the final (non-procession) stage leapfrogged to the overall GC win?

In Giro 2017 Dumoulin was 4th before the final stage and winning the overall. But that was an ITT

 

[Red Rick]

Guys, for anyone wondering how fast they started Finestre.

Jefferson Alexander Cepeda, who is all of 56 kg's according to PCS, did 416 watts for the first 3 minutes and 13 seconds, making it a 7.42 W/kg effort for the first 1.3 km of Colle delle Finestre.

 

[Gigs_98]

I couldn't take part in the discussion yesterday so I'm sure all of this has been discussed to death, but it's crazy that not only did Yates win the Giro exactly where he lost it 7 years ago, it's also Carapaz who lost the Giro in the exact same fashion he won it 6 years ago, with the pink jersey unwilling to pull the 2nd placed rider in gc. Actually it's also geographically close to where Carapaz won in 2019. Of the two stages where he gained all his time one also included the Colle del Lys, while the other one started like 10 km away from yesterdays stage start.

 

[Heston]

Carapaz did the right thing if he wanted to win the Giro and not ride for secondary placements. He just didn't have the legs.

 

[Red Rick]

I couldn't take part in the discussion yesterday so I'm sure all of this has been discussed to death, but it's crazy that not only did Yates win the Giro exactly where he lost it 7 years ago, it's also Carapaz who lost the Giro in the exact same fashion he won it 6 years ago, with the pink jersey unwilling to pull the 2nd placed rider in gc. Actually it's also geographically close to where Carapaz won in 2019. Of the two stages where he gained all his time one also included the Colle del Lys, while the other one started like 10 km away from yesterdays stage start.

Extra poetry : Who sneaked away for 2nd place on the Courmayeur stage in 2019?

Extra nitpick: Jan Polanc had pink during that stage. It was the original Slovenian UAE betrayal for Roglic before we ever realized.

 

[gregrowlerson]

According to PCS he’s around 3 minutes ahead of Yates, meaning he should reach the top before Yates. If so Yates gonna gain a minute in the downhill and false flat up until the final 4-5 km to Sestriere. Visma is winning this now.

Eddy is our one and only prophet

 

[Cycling111]

The other G is right here ...del Toro but more importantly UAE lost the Giro

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928916334840049838

View: https://x.com/Watts_Occurring/status/1928916334840049838

G. Thomas lost the 2023 Giro by not attacking Roglic when it was clear he was struggling.

In fact, the day Rogic lost time, it was because Almeida attacked. If it were up to G., Roglic wouldn't even lose time that day.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Amazing stage and half the forums on here whining.No wonder this sport isn’t more popular. I love how on poster popped in to watch this and was like, This is why I don’t watch cycling anymore. This stage is fantastic; are yall insane?

• Game theory
• Bluffs
• Potential redemption for Yates on the Finestre
• A new legend in the making (or a near miss when all the stars aligned?) in Del Toro
• Attacks from the base of the Finestre
• Contrasting styles
• A close race

PWU life ban.

 

[Gratemans]

Amazing stage and half the forums on here whining.No wonder this sport isn’t more popular. I love how on poster popped in to watch this and was like, This is why I don’t watch cycling anymore. This stage is fantastic; are yall insane?

• Game theory
• Bluffs
• Potential redemption for Yates on the Finestre
• A new legend in the making (or a near miss when all the stars aligned?) in Del Toro
• Attacks from the base of the Finestre
• Contrasting styles
• A close race

Yes! i'm gonna print this and hang it above my bed.

 

[Brullnux]

G. Thomas lost the 2023 Giro by not attacking Roglic when it was clear he was struggling.

In fact, the day Rogic lost time, it was because Almeida attacked. If it were up to G., Roglic wouldn't even lose time that day.

G is an inherently defensive rider, he learned his craft during the Sky glory days. His instincts were often wrong re putting time in others, but I don't think he ever really got it wrong when trying to prevent time losses.