Giro d'Italia stage 20, Stage 20: Alba – Sestriere 190 km

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My take is that if you are good at Ineos as in Sivakov you get to ride the TDF in a support role while TGH rides the Giro as a support rider and through circumstances could win a GT - I know who is the better rider.
 
Honeslty I think they went into the Tour knowing they were super far behind and Thomas got the real preferential treatment going to the Giro.
Thomas was in bad shape at the beginning of the Tour, they didn't really have a choice. They went with their best. Carapaz also wasn't a decent alternative, losing time in early stages but probably he still had better numbers than Thomas.
 
What racing? They got carried by the best climber in the world. They barely attacked the entire Giro. Hindley's attacks were so bad Dennis recovered twice. Tour was definitely more entertaining, less super domestique work.
Let’s be clear about Dennis’s double recovery. He only had to make sure that Kelderman was more than a minute or so behind. After that, he could ride within himself enough to make sure he could support Tao. They knew the attack from Hindley would come, and Dennis needed to be in a position to react to it, and help TGH when it did come. Ineos played that perfectly.

The great thing about this Giro is we’ve seen some real tactics come into play, and the teams of the 2 leaders (of the whole top 5 really) have had to think about what they’re doing.

I just wish Sunweb had sent someone (Hamilton, Haga, whoever) in the break to give Hindley some options. It worked a treat for Quickstep.
 
Let’s be clear about Dennis’s double recovery. He only had to make sure that Kelderman was more than a minute or so behind. After that, he could ride within himself enough to make sure he could support Tao. They knew the attack from Hindley would come, and Dennis needed to be in a position to react to it, and help TGH when it did come. Ineos played that perfectly.

The great thing about this Giro is we’ve seen some real tactics come into play, and the teams of the 2 leaders (of the whole top 5 really) have had to think about what they’re doing.

I just wish Sunweb had sent someone (Hamilton, Haga, whoever) in the break to give Hindley some options. It worked a treat for Quickstep.
We're back to the good old tactcis of "have team that does 10% more watts than anyone else"
 
Today might have been crazy with Agnello/Izoard but then I guess it would have been Dennis putting 3 minutes into Kelderman while riding below threshold all the way until the final but less steep Sestriere climb.

The hilarious thing is that Hindley and TGH "duked" it out on two finishing climbs and it was basically both like Contador/Schleck on Ax 3 Domaines.

Except instead of the 2 best climbers in the words its Jimmy an Timmy
I mean, sure it could have been much better, but I dont really want to complain when they go so far from the finish. The race situation was so tricky in both circumstances and I enjoyed the tactical element of it, even though I would have liked to see them try each other a bit more.
 
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From CQ

Main conclusion is that neither of them have often had much motivation to go all out for a result in a time trial. Secondary one is that Geoghegan Hart has shown more potential.
 
From CQ

Main conclusion is that neither of them have often had much motivation to go all out for a result in a time trial. Secondary one is that Geoghegan Hart has shown more potential.
Most important one are probably the short ones also because that's where riders are more likely to go all out even when they don't need to. TGH could drop decent ITTs prior to this GIro. He beat Hindley in the Tirreno ITT despite Hindley climbing far better.
 
Let’s be clear about Dennis’s double recovery. He only had to make sure that Kelderman was more than a minute or so behind. After that, he could ride within himself enough to make sure he could support Tao. They knew the attack from Hindley would come, and Dennis needed to be in a position to react to it, and help TGH when it did come. Ineos played that perfectly.

The great thing about this Giro is we’ve seen some real tactics come into play, and the teams of the 2 leaders (of the whole top 5 really) have had to think about what they’re doing.

I just wish Sunweb had sent someone (Hamilton, Haga, whoever) in the break to give Hindley some options. It worked a treat for Quickstep.
Not sure what race did you saw. Dennis didn't cover any of the Hindley attacks, it was Tao. Dennis recovered because Hindley's attacks were too short and weak to drop Dennis.
Tactics? If Hindley would've been much more powerful than Tao, Ineos's tactics would've been shambles.
 
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Jul 15, 2019
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Dutch fans giving Sunweb a hard time about their tactics and support of Kelderman.Saying he could have won the Giro...Are these people bind
Whatever you thought of Sunweb's tactics the one thing we can say with the benefit of hindsight is that they didn't work. (Unless Hindley pulls a Pogacar tomorrow)

The way they rode on Thursday guaranteed them a shot today, it worked in that sense, but whilst it's easy to criticise with hindsight I don't think today's outcome was at all surprising. If they'd gone all in for either rider on Stage 18, would they have won? Maybe, we'll never know.

The Dutch won't like this, but would they have won if they hadn't ridden for the wrong guy for three weeks?
 
The Dutch won't like this, but would they have won if they hadn't ridden for the wrong guy for three weeks?
^^^ This... Kelderman is a weak sauce... Mentally and physically, sorry... I lost respect for him when he threw up tantrums about Hindley not waiting for him on Stelvio... If you can't keep up with the best, you DO NOT deserve to win the Giro!!! Besides, he is leaving for Bora next year so WTH is Sunweb doing with supporting him.
 
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Yikes, you should have put some trigger warnings for non-Austrian Ski fans before posting this kind of stuff. ;)
Speaking of Benni Raich, there's a video of him doing a recon of one of the Austrian Tour of the Alpes stages with Bettini.
View: https://youtu.be/O6GoJriKV_8
That's really cool. Raich is probably up there in my list of absolute favorite sports personalities.

Also, absolutely no excuse for the lack of trigger warnings. Were Italians so upset about Rocca not winning that race?
 
^^^ This... Kelderman is a weak sauce... Mentally and physically, sorry... I lost respect for him when he threw up tantrums about Hindley not waiting for him on Stelvio... If you can't keep up with the best, you DO NOT deserve to win the Giro!!! Besides, he is leaving for Bora next year so WTH is Sunweb doing with supporting him.
If Kelderman doesn't act like a liverwurst and sits up because Sunweb refuses to call Hindley back he's actually still within striking distance at about 50-55 seconds on the gc now. He was 40 seconds behind Tao & Hindley at that point, couldn't follow the Fuglsang group once they catched him, but barely lost any ground to the Dane once he put in a little fight again. Also Hindley probably would've / could've attacked on the final ascent if Wilco doesn't literally conduct refusal to work there which probably resulted in the sports director not wanting to annoy him any further. Sunweb could be in a situation now, where they're likely to win the Giro d'Italia with either Hindley or Kelderman depending on the final TT. Instead the lose it, simply because of Kelderman's childish behavior.

How some Dutch fans can conclude this in disfavor of Sunweb & Hindley is beyond imagination for me. It's either sheer stupidity or fanism. All Kelderman has to do is to *** do the job he's payed for instead of lamenting around that his stronger time mate gets a fair chance. Now, Hindley didn't wait but clearly didn't attack either to not confront Kelderman because he might have given up completely then.

I understand why Sunweb did that, because as cooked as Kelderman was he initially sat up and conducted refusal to work. It's what Karsten Migels and Rolf Aldag immediately recognized once the team car passed him. So of course Sunweb doesn't want their best shot at the pink jersey to give up out of frustration that his stronger domestique attacks at front. Eventually it cost them the race now. They pleased the wrong rider.

Like I said if Hindley attacks & Kelderman simply rides on and doesn't sit up both are still in prime position to win the corsa rosa with Hart being sandwiched in on the gc.

This was scandalous behavior by Kelderman and I'm still shocked and angry!
 
If Hindley was 3 minutes down on Hart and Kelderman needed like 2 pulls to get on Hart's wheel I think Kelderman has a case

Or if Hindley was out of the GC picture and chose to chase to stage win instead of helping the team leader

Neither scenario reflects reality so I think Kelderman has no case
 
If Kelderman doesn't act like a liverwurst and sits up because Sunweb refuses to call Hindley back he's actually still within striking distance at about 50-55 seconds on the gc now. He was 40 seconds behind Tao & Hindley at that point, couldn't follow the Fuglsang group once they catched him, but barely lost any ground to the Dane once he put in a little fight again. Also Hindley probably would've / could've attacked on the final ascent if Wilco doesn't literally conduct refusal to work there which probably resulted in the sports director not wanting to annoy him any further. Sunweb could be in a situation now, where they're likely to win the Giro d'Italia with either Hindley or Kelderman depending on the final TT. Instead the lose it, simply because of Kelderman's childish behavior.

How some Dutch fans can conclude this in disfavor of Sunweb & Hindley is beyond imagination for me. It's either sheer stupidity or fanism. All Kelderman has to do is to *** do the job he's payed for instead of lamenting around that his stronger time mate gets a fair chance. Now, Hindley didn't wait but clearly didn't attack either to not confront Kelderman because he might have given up completely then.

I understand why Sunweb did that, because as cooked as Kelderman was he initially sat up and conducted refusal to work. It's what Karsten Migels and Rolf Aldag immediately recognized once the team car passed him. So of course Sunweb doesn't want their best shot at the pink jersey to give up out of frustration that his stronger domestique attacks at front. Eventually it cost them the race now. They pleased the wrong rider.

Like I said if Hindley attacks & Kelderman simply rides on and doesn't sit up both are still in prime position to win the corsa rosa with Hart being sandwiched in on the gc.

This was scandalous behavior by Kelderman and I'm still shocked and angry!
I don't know what race you watched, but Kelderman didn't sit up. He was clearly cooked and yes, for a moment he got frustrated by the team car leaving him and maybe that cracked him mentally, but I saw no indication of Kelderman throwing a tantrum and sitting up because Hindley wasn't waiting. In fact this was actually the strategy they agreed on before the stage.
 
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I don't know what race you watched, but Kelderman didn't sit up. He was clearly cooked and yes, for a moment he got frustrated by the team car leaving him and maybe that cracked him mentally, but I saw no indication of Kelderman throwing a tantrum and sitting up because Hindley wasn't waiting. In fact this was actually the strategy they agreed on before the stage.
It's what Aldag immediately recognized once the team car passed him and Kelderman shrugged his head in discord. A very experienced former rider and sports director. Personally I had the same impression, yes. That he sat up shortly doesn't necessarily deny the fact that he was cooked as well. But the combination of both IMHO cost him & Sunweb vulnerable seconds, which could have been precious today and especially tomorrow!

Still, Kelderman shouldn't have been a liverwurst during his interview, when in fact Hindley was still playing second fiddle and only marking Geoghenhart instead of attacking for his own chances.

Let's rephrase "sat up" with "kinda gave up a bit" and you'll find the crucial moment where he lost the Giro d'Italia!
 
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I mean, sure it could have been much better, but I dont really want to complain when they go so far from the finish. The race situation was so tricky in both circumstances and I enjoyed the tactical element of it, even though I would have liked to see them try each other a bit more.
Riders gave the best they could've given, but the route prevented a classic.
 

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