Giro doping 2017

[staubsauger]

Well, that escalated quickly ...


Surprised this ain't the sputniks testing positive for polonium 101!

 

[Saint Unix]

But the good thing is that now cycling is clean, right?

 

[yaco]

Some peptides replicate naturally occurring substances in the body - And there is a number in which there is yet to be proven tests.

 

[MikeS369]

Re: Re:

I thought it was frowned upon to dope now, the mentality had changed

Busting a couple no-name (for the general public) riders in a PT team does absolutely nothing against that narrative. If anything, it reinforces it.

Sadly, my thinking as well. I think it's a case of 'less funded' teams and riders getting popped to show that 'the drug testing is working.'

Wonder if that will be that, or they'll catch a few more small fish and let them dry out in the sun while the big boys entertain the crowds and bring in the $$$$.

No need for any element of conspiracy. Two guys were busted because they were doping with something a bit exotic and probably didn't understand the glow times. Amateur hour stuff.

Or stupid doctors or stupid team orders.

Pirazzi is 30. That is an experienced rider.

It doesn't take much effort to go to some bodybuilding website and find all the info you need to avoid testing positive.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

But the good thing is that now cycling is clean, right?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Shame Androni could have been here instead.

 

[Felice Gimondi]

I'm not so sure the riders and their doctors are that stupid, most likely they're just taking calculated risks and consider themselves unlucky.

Attention needs to be at the testing systems and the real risk of being caught in an OOC-test or otherwise. WADA themselves recon they catch only 2% of dopers. With numbers that low in any other aspect of society, we'd call it a complete disaster.

If an athlete needs to be 100% sure they can pull an ADAMS misreporting while glowing getting occasional limited missed tests warnings and even collecting a few of them within a year before it's a problem. Could be interesting to know if these riders had any previous missed tests.

Another interesting part is the intensity of OOC-tests. This is clearly an economic issue for anti doping agencies and their up against much better funded doping practises. In many sports, OOC tests have been so rarely done on athletes in similar conditions and timings that the risk is often considered worth taking, even more, you'd be an idiot if you didn't take the risk yourself when the prospect of getting caught is very unlikely. If you se competitors taking those risks year after year earning victories and a lot of money, you'd go along or most likely quit, especially if your talent is somewhat limited. Human nature.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Let's hope there'll be some busts during the Giro, and not just among the wildcards like in '13. I'm missing some good old fashioned GT doping drama.

Yeah, I'd like to see Geraint Thomas get busted too.

This in a nutshell shows the mentality of this place, not 'i'd like to see all the cheats get busted', 'i'd like to see someone i don't like get busted'.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Let's hope there'll be some busts during the Giro, and not just among the wildcards like in '13. I'm missing some good old fashioned GT doping drama.

Yeah, I'd like to see Geraint Thomas get busted too.

This in a nutshell shows the mentality of this place, not 'i'd like to see all the cheats get busted', 'i'd like to see someone i don't like get busted'.

Oh really when did Geraint Thomas not become a cheat? His admiration of Wiggins and Froome is smashing

Dont take it personally, it is that people get upset at rider transformations, it is not hatred it is the ridiculousness of it.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Let's hope there'll be some busts during the Giro, and not just among the wildcards like in '13. I'm missing some good old fashioned GT doping drama.

Yeah, I'd like to see Geraint Thomas get busted too.

This in a nutshell shows the mentality of this place, not 'i'd like to see all the cheats get busted', 'i'd like to see someone i don't like get busted'.

Oh really when did Geraint Thomas not become a cheat? His admiration of Wiggins and Froome is smashing

Dont take it personally, it is that people get upset at rider transformations, it is not hatred it is the ridiculousness of it.

Why is it that transformations should be more ridiculous than anything else that might go on in the sport? A person's body composition is not set in stone (sure, the height is difficult to do anything about but parameters such as lean body mass and fat percentage should be quite tweakable).

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Let's hope there'll be some busts during the Giro, and not just among the wildcards like in '13. I'm missing some good old fashioned GT doping drama.

Yeah, I'd like to see Geraint Thomas get busted too.

This in a nutshell shows the mentality of this place, not 'i'd like to see all the cheats get busted', 'i'd like to see someone i don't like get busted'.

Oh really when did Geraint Thomas not become a cheat? His admiration of Wiggins and Froome is smashing

Dont take it personally, it is that people get upset at rider transformations, it is not hatred it is the ridiculousness of it.

Why is it that transformations should be more ridiculous than anything else that might go on in the sport? A person's body composition is not set in stone (sure, the height is difficult to do anything about but parameters such as lean body mass and fat percentage should be quite tweakable).

Tweaking is one thing and possible at minute incrementation as these are elite athletes.

But transformations that allow riders to go from grupetto fodder to podiums is not possible with performance enhancement doping.

it is not possible to lose the so called 'inner fat' and make up 3 hours in a GT to blow everyone else away over a season a la Wiggins 2012.

Thomas's transformation has been slower as he had to wait as Wiggins and then Froome got preference.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Tweaking is one thing and possible at minute incrementation as these are elite athletes.

But transformations that allow riders to go from grupetto fodder to podiums is not possible with performance enhancement doping.

it is not possible to lose the so called 'inner fat' and make up 3 hours in a GT to blow everyone else away over a season a la Wiggins 2012.

Thomas's transformation has been slower as he had to wait as Wiggins and then Froome got preference.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

And Thomas hasn't really been gruppetto fodder, has he? I think he has always been climbing pretty well and better than Wiggins in the beginning of his career.

I don't know if it's possible to do these transformations without medical assistance but I have always assumed that the medical assistance in this regard mostly had the purpose of speeding things up and making it easier to do the transformation quickly.

And surely, it is more likely that medicine is necessary to be able to compete at the top-end of the peloton than it is necessary to transform one's body. That would at least be my assumption but I am not a doctor nor do I have any personal experience with either situation. Should that be the case, however, the lynching of Thomas in here might just be a tiny bit inappropriate - especially as he has been a work in progress for several years.

 

[Robert5091]

http://live.cyclingnews.com/
"Reverberi already spoke last night to La Gazzetta dello Sport, despite the hotel proprietor locking the doors, switching off the lights and claiming that no cycling team was staying in his establishment. The Bardiani-CSF bus, truck and cars parked outside were a mild giveaway, mind, and the resourceful Claudio Ghisalberti eventually gained access."
comedy gold :lol:

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Tweaking is one thing and possible at minute incrementation as these are elite athletes.

But transformations that allow riders to go from grupetto fodder to podiums is not possible with performance enhancement doping.

it is not possible to lose the so called 'inner fat' and make up 3 hours in a GT to blow everyone else away over a season a la Wiggins 2012.

Thomas's transformation has been slower as he had to wait as Wiggins and then Froome got preference.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

And Thomas hasn't really been gruppetto fodder, has he? I think he has always been climbing pretty well and better than Wiggins in the beginning of his career.

I don't know if it's possible to do these transformations without medical assistance but I have always assumed that the medical assistance in this regard mostly had the purpose of speeding things up and making it easier to do the transformation quickly.

And surely, it is more likely that medicine is necessary to be able to compete at the top-end of the peloton than it is necessary to transform one's body. That would at least be my assumption but I am not a doctor nor do I have any personal experience with either situation. Should that be the case, however, the lynching of Thomas in here might just be a tiny bit inappropriate - especially as he has been a work in progress for several years.

Yeah he was, there's footage from GT's/stage races of him *sliding out the back of a large peloton when the road goes up*. Now some will say,'oh he was focusing on the track etc etc'. But if that worked for Thomas why hasn't Kennaugh gone from track to GT leader, and I'm pretty sure Kennaugh was meant to be the guy, when Brailsford dreamt his "winning the Tour within 5 years with a British rider" before Wiggins 09 happened.

If he was that good at climbing why did he waste time focusing on the "northern classics"? I mean, Sky aren't short in the classics department and looking back at their roster for previous years they weren't then, so not like Thomas was being used to make up numbers.

*Have you ever seen Quintana, Nibali etc going out the back door of the peloton when the road goes up(like 50-80km from the finish line)?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Damn, I got lumbered with "At least it shows the testing is working" and "Bad apples" in the Eurosport drinking game

 

[hrotha]

Thomas was a decent climber. Top 40 material or so. Pretty decent. Not comparable to Wiggins at all.

 

[deviant]

Peptides are an interesting one, some have a half life of merely seconds (or minutes) in the body but continue to force the pituitary gland to release GH for several hours after....i should imagine these are 'safe' in terms of glow time.
Others have additional molecules added so they have a much longer effect on the pituitary gland release of GH, these are the ones I should imagine gives a longer glow time but require just the one injection a day as opposed to some that require several jabs a day.

It really is an IQ test, this info is readily available out there, I'd sack the incompetent DR too for not knowing this.
I'd go as far as to say that with my limited personal use of PEDs over the years I could do a better job than most of these old school doping DRs now, I'd need to brush up my hematology to circumvent the blood passport but it seems to be money for old rope now.

Guys like Conconi and Ferrari were genuine professionals, the current crop seem to be chancers at best, I wouldn't trust my career to some 60yr old DR who's been around since the days of loading riders with amphetamines.
I'd take matters into my own hands or find a new up and coming sports DR that understands insulin, peptides, aicar, GW, GH, test, mild blood doping etc.

You'd also want your athlete 'cruising' on PEDs all year round to avoid any spikes or dips in their passports, long term health implications of never coming off?....who knows, but the riders will tell you the financial rewards and prestige of a GT win would be worth it.

Sad as this is to say, if I was a promising teenager being looked at by pro teams I'd start a low octane program now so there aren't any anomalies in my passport and continue like that my entire career.....however short it might be as a result....if the team then want to add to that then fair enough but I'd want any proposals run past my personal physician too.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Thomas was a decent climber. Top 40 material or so. Pretty decent. Not comparable to Wiggins at all.

Thomas won a stage race as early as 2011, Bayern Rundfahrt

 

[deviant]

If you know where Thomas grew up you'd know he's no stranger to hills and mountains, just happened (like so many young British riders) he was guided towards the track, doesn't happen so much now as more pro road teams are prepared to take on young British riders without then having had a track career first.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Tweaking is one thing and possible at minute incrementation as these are elite athletes.

But transformations that allow riders to go from grupetto fodder to podiums is not possible with performance enhancement doping.

it is not possible to lose the so called 'inner fat' and make up 3 hours in a GT to blow everyone else away over a season a la Wiggins 2012.

Thomas's transformation has been slower as he had to wait as Wiggins and then Froome got preference.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

And Thomas hasn't really been gruppetto fodder, has he? I think he has always been climbing pretty well and better than Wiggins in the beginning of his career.

I don't know if it's possible to do these transformations without medical assistance but I have always assumed that the medical assistance in this regard mostly had the purpose of speeding things up and making it easier to do the transformation quickly.

And surely, it is more likely that medicine is necessary to be able to compete at the top-end of the peloton than it is necessary to transform one's body. That would at least be my assumption but I am not a doctor nor do I have any personal experience with either situation. Should that be the case, however, the lynching of Thomas in here might just be a tiny bit inappropriate - especially as he has been a work in progress for several years.

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

 

[Valv.Piti]

Im no saint either, I also grew to dislike Thomas after what he did on Plateau de Beille. Ridiculous.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

Let me just say it out loud here. This forum exists to belittle Sky. Even when they do believe everyone is doping, they choose to point out at Froome, Thomas, Wiggins just because there is hate towards these particular riders, knowing theres a previously banned Contador and another nearly 40 year old previously banned Spanish rider on his best start to the season EVER.

Here hard work has no meaning. The ideal example being Betancur who with all his talent is still ***.

Dope and hard work is part of the game. Froome beats everyone at this game because of his will, hard work, preparation and his physiological gifts. Same was with Armstrong. Same was with Contador when he won.

 

[Netserk]

Lol, I'm sure it was a sudden increase of will and hard work that transformed him in 2011. He was just lazy before that Vuelta...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

To lose inner fat? Really how does one achieve that? How does one go about measuring the inner fat? Where does the inner fat reside in the human body ( in sky fans it is in the head obviously)?

Transformations at elite level are impossible to achieve. To attain elite level in sport is an enormous achievement and one is already at ones peak in terms of fitness and ability. One does not 'learn' to climb at elite level. In cycling a person has a natural constitution/ability to compete with many different variables making up that ability/talent/constitution. Hence we had TTers, climbers, rouleurs, etc and then GT riders were all rounders with a decent TT ability on top of a constitution that their bodies naturally recovered quickly after big efforts. Modern doping has done away with all that. From Indurain (dropping Millar on Pyrenean Cols), Riis to Wiggins and Froome we see riders that had no business on GT podiums suddenly appearing out of nowhere.

You do not go from competing with Tony Martin to climbing with Nairo Quintana in a couple of seasons. It does not work that way naturally. Doping is what makes that possible. Bottle carriers dope, so to go from a bottle carrier (domestique) to podium in a GT takes a doping program. Wiggins and Froome went from domestiques (one with an ok TT ability) to world class TTer and world class climber. The other went from hanging onto motorbikes to world class TTer and world class climber. Not possible naturally.

We know the testing is a joke. Clean riders dont get to elite level.