Giro Points Competition

[nesocip]

Giro already does that (last paragraph)

I dont see any Trofeo Fuga Pinarello jersey out there.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What does "Malilot la de relugadirad" mean?

Im joking.

Yea, Thor's win was 2009, dont know where i lost two years in between.

Anyways, I remember some survey RCS management was doing last year i think about Rossa. It was something like the discussion we are having at the moment.

Anyways, at the moment the winner of the Red is decided by parcours, not by rider, which is not really OK. Yes, your argument of a fight between a GC guy and a pure sprinter on a balanced parcours stands, but how often is the parcours balanced?

To sum it up, yes i do think it should be a "Sprinter's Jersey" in all three GTs, pretense or no pretense. Creates another "race within a race", which is never a bad thing, and adds another layer of complexity to the race itself. What do they call it, doesnt really matter. They could be giving out points for every km spent in a break, for example, and still call it a "points jersey". They get points after all.

Now that ive mentioned it, i hope some bigger race soon introduces a jersey for a guy that spent most km in 1st group on the road in a race, i think technology is advanced enough for that now.

I'm not saying that the Points jersey being taken by GC men is a good or a bad thing, but saying that the fact that a jersey that rewards all stages equally (as the Giro points jersey does) is being taken into week 3 with nobody really sure who will take it out of a pure sprinter and a full-on GC man, is a fact that suggests the parcours is balanced, because it has given equal opportunities to polar opposite types of rider.

The Giro's Trofeo Fuga is exactly what you describe at the end, only you need to be in a group of 10 or fewer.

The Peace Race used to have something of an interesting nature like that. It would give points for stage finishing positions, but also bonus points for anybody finishing in a group of 10 or fewer that finished 30 seconds ahead of the next group on the road (with these points extending for each further increment of 30 seconds), which meant rouleurs of all kinds could fight for it given the often bone-shaking cobbles and Plattenwege on which the race took place.

 

[Netserk]

I dont see any Trofeo Fuga Pinarello jersey out there.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/2013/classifiche/it/t_16_class_CLFUGGEN.shtml?t=16&lang=it

 

[search]

I'm not saying that the Points jersey being taken by GC men is a good or a bad thing, but saying that the fact that a jersey that rewards all stages equally (as the Giro points jersey does) is being taken into week 3 with nobody really sure who will take it out of a pure sprinter and a full-on GC man, is a fact that suggests the parcours is balanced, because it has given equal opportunities to polar opposite types of rider.

indeed, last year a pure sprinter (Cav) and a climber (Purito) were separated by 1 points, this year is looks like it will be more or less equally close. And if anyone of the more hilly type of riders would have bothered he could be in the mix as well. There are 16 points to be won in intermediate sprints every stage, it's not the organizers fault if nobody (but Viviani, occasionally) cared

http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/2013/classifiche/it/t_16_class_CLFUGGEN.shtml?t=16&lang=it

sure, but there's no jersey for that

 

[nesocip]

Guys, im talking about an actual Jersey, you know, podium every day, TV time, and stuff like that. I know what trofeo fuga is.

Didnt know about that competition in Peace Race, that was a very interesting approach, although im not sure it would work outside cobbled races and narrow roads.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

indeed, last year a pure sprinter (Cav) and a climber (Purito) were separated by 1 points, this year is looks like it will be more or less equally close. And if anyone of the more hilly type of riders would have bothered he could be in the mix as well. There are 16 points to be won in intermediate sprints every stage, it's not the organizers fault if nobody (but Viviani, occasionally) cared

Don't agree. If this is the case the competition should simply be removed. Then riders can focus on something they care about instead.

There is a food chain involved.

Or perhaps we can give the points Jersey to Aquarone for coming up with a balanced parcours.

 

[search]

I think a jersey where two riders fight (and care) for is still better than no jersey. And with sprinter-friendly regulations like back than in the tour there would be no competion at all anymore

 

[Love the Scenery]

I'm guessing Cadel is more motivated by Pro Tour points for the team than by the Giro points competition. Let's not forget he's getting on in years and these days riders are worth the points they earn. If he wants to continue making the big bucks he needs to bring in the points for the team and he's bringing them in. If it shifts Cav out of the points jersey that's just collateral damage but you can't blame a rider for taking all the PT points he can get whenever he can get them. That's how the system is set up.

 

[mb2612]

Guys, im talking about an actual Jersey, you know, podium every day, TV time, and stuff like that. I know what trofeo fuga is.

Didnt know about that competition in Peace Race, that was a very interesting approach, although im not sure it would work outside cobbled races and narrow roads.

The UCI only allow 4 jerseys per race. Hence why the young rider at the Vuelta doesn't get a jersey, because they have the combined jersey, and why the tour have red numbers for the most aggressive rider.

 

[search]

I'm guessing Cadel is more motivated by Pro Tour points for the team than by the Giro points competition. Let's not forget he's getting on in years and these days riders are worth the points they earn. If he wants to continue making the big bucks he needs to bring in the points for the team and he's bringing them in. If it shifts Cav out of the points jersey that's just collateral damage but you can't blame a rider for taking all the PT points he can get whenever he can get them. That's how the system is set up.

you get 1 wt point for a 5th place in the stage ranking compared to 100-170 for an overall podium spot, so I doubt that's the reason to be honest

 

[Dazed and Confused]

you get 1 wt point for a 5th place in the stage ranking compared to 100-170 for an overall podium spot, so I doubt that's the reason to be honest

In TdF several riders starts out with an objective of winning the points jersey. If we have a dominant player involved, the competition might fall down the cliff 60% into the race as everybody but one gives up.

In the Giro we have a points competition where the counter party only very late in the race starts to take an interest, because the rider happens to find himself in a favorable situation as a result of his primary objective.

None of these situations strikes me as being particular good.

 

[Love the Scenery]

you get 1 wt point for a 5th place in the stage ranking compared to 100-170 for an overall podium spot, so I doubt that's the reason to be honest

Hmmm. My mistake, I thought there were more points reaching further down. Well, then you are right, it's incomprehensible. Cadel is just getting ornery.

 

[Roderick]

I hope Cav takes it. He really deserves it, he rode like a real champion this Giro

 

[RownhamHill]

indeed, last year a pure sprinter (Cav) and a climber (Purito) were separated by 1 points, this year is looks like it will be more or less equally close.

Last year didn't Purito win at least one or two stages, while Cav didn't win all the sprinter stages he competed for (a couple of crashes, and didn't Guardini just beat him in one of the sprints?). So both performed well in different kind of stages, while (certainly in Cav's case) not completely dominating (which does suggest a balanced competition).

Whereas this year, Cav has probably over performed against what you thought he might do (the back to back stage wins last week), while Evans - while he's done well in the GC race - hasn't really done much at all in terms of stage wins or whatever, as others have said he's almost in the points comp by default - which suggests (to me) a less balanced competition.

Surely what you want from any competition winner is for them to earn it with some really stand out performances, rather than a consolation for coming second in a different competition - I'd say Purito did that last year, whereas I'm not so sure Evans will have done that this year, if he wins the points jersey. (Unless of course he goes mental this weekend and wins/animates a couple of stages !)

 

[goggalor]

Evans isn't in the competition by default, he's there because he's been top 10 in 10 of 16 stages so far, sprinting to the line each time. If he had a team to pull back escapees, he might have a stage win as well. If Cav is good enough he'll win it. If Sagan was here he'd win easily... but he's not, so kudos to Cav for bothering.

 

[Carols]

Evans isn't in the competition by default, he's there because he's been top 10 in 10 of 16 stages so far, sprinting to the line each time. If he had a team to pull back escapees, he might have a stage win as well. If Cav is good enough he'll win it.

Spoken for truth.....Cav only deserves to win it if he earns more points than Cadel.

 

[Netserk]

Stage winners already get their win. The jersey should be for consistency.

Cav:

1
1
1
1

49
71
113
120
121
127
129
148
160
163
167
170

Evans:

2
5
5
5
6
6
6
7
8
10

25
29
31
39
40
42

 

[Morbius]

If there were two top sprinters at the Giro, neither would stand a chance of getting close to the points jersey. That's what's wrong with it.

Cav is completely dominant in the sprints. If he loses the points jersey to someone who is dominant in other types of finish then fair enough, but to lose to someone just because they get lots of 'top-tens' is not a reasonable competition.

Perhaps the way to fix the Giro points competition is to have a greater differential between stage winners and the lower placings.

 

[Gloin22]

Points Jersey is for the most consistent rider in the GT.

It's not a sprinter jersey etc.. Most consistent rider in GT deserves it at the end.

 

[Roderick]

Indeed, it isn't right that someone who wins 5 stages (if Cav wins in brescia, which he probably will) loses to someone with a 2nd place and 9 other top-6 (if cuddles gets another three top-6 which wouldn't be surprising)


5 wins should always be >>>>>>>> 10 top-6

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If there were two top sprinters at the Giro, neither would stand a chance of getting close to the points jersey. That's what's wrong with it.

Cav is completely dominant in the sprints. If he loses the points jersey to someone who is dominant in other types of finish then fair enough, but to lose to someone just because they get lots of 'top-tens' is not a reasonable competition.

Perhaps the way to fix the Giro points competition is to have a greater differential between stage winners and the lower placings.

Isn't winning several stages already reward enough?

Maillot de la regularidad, people. If it weren't possible to win it in more than one way, it would be a mighty boring competition with Cav winning every points jersey for the last five years easily. Sure, it's a consolation prize for Evans, but it's still a prize, and that he can get it means Cavendish has to fight for it, and we see him pull out impressive wins like stage 13, or turn himself inside out like he did today in his (doomed) quest to stay in contact, which makes it seem more of an achievement if he does it, no?

 

[MellowJohnny]

I really hope Cavendish wins the red jersey. It was harsh losing by a point last year, a similar thing happened to Degenkolb in the Vuelta.

The way the points competition is set up you may as well give 10 minute time bonuses for sprinters winning, then they can challenge GC riders for their jerseys

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I really hope Cavendish wins the red jersey. It was harsh losing by a point last year, a similar thing happened to Degenkolb in the Vuelta.

The way the points competition is set up you may as well give 10 minute time bonuses for sprinters winning, then they can challenge GC riders for their jerseys

They experimented with biasing the time last year, giving no time bonuses in mountain stages but bonuses in flat stages. It didn't work.

The thing is, the GC isn't biased: all stages pay the same bonuses and time is standard - and unlike the Tour the points competition isn't biased either: all stages pay the same points.

The Tour has biased the points system to try to generate a better competition among the sprinters, the Giro and Vuelta maintain the old system of rewarding consistency. Neither is wrong per se, they're just different. It means that a sprinter has to be multi-faceted to win all three points jerseys, and it makes it more of an achievement to do it. Cav gets (or got) a lot of criticism for being a one-trick pony; he isn't. Winning the points jersey on a balanced Giro parcours would just be the final nail in the coffin of that accusation.

 

[Roderick]

Isn't winning several stages already reward enough?

Maillot de la regularidad, people. If it weren't possible to win it in more than one way, it would be a mighty boring competition with Cav winning every points jersey for the last five years easily. Sure, it's a consolation prize for Evans, but it's still a prize, and that he can get it means Cavendish has to fight for it, and we see him pull out impressive wins like stage 13, or turn himself inside out like he did today in his (doomed) quest to stay in contact, which makes it seem more of an achievement if he does it, no?

But wouldn't you say that cav was more regular since he practically won everything that suited him and cuddles was pretty much meh in the stages that suited him. He got a lot of top-6 in sprints nobody really cared about

EDIT: Cause this Giro was definately not balanced out between sprint/climb-stages

 

[Netserk]

How many TVs has Cav won? 0. How well did he do in the stage Degenkolb won? 127th.