Giro Points Competition

[Roderick]

How many TVs has Cav won? 0. How well did he do in the stage Degenkolb won? 127th.

IMO, a points competition shouldn't be decided by winning TV's. And that stage was the only stage within his reach he didn't win

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But wouldn't you say that cav was more regular since he practically won everything that suited him and cuddles was pretty much meh in the stages that suited him. He got a lot of top-6 in sprints nobody really cared about

EDIT: Cause this Giro was definately not balanced out between sprint/climb-stages

There were plenty of stages which were much more selective than they first appeared, as the racing at this Giro has been much more aggressive than anticipated, partially thanks to the weather. If Cavendish could make it to the end of stage 13 to win it, would it really have been too surprising had he made it in the bunch to pick up minor points at least on the stage Paolini won, or today's stage, if they were raced less aggressively? I mean, remember stage 19 of the 2009 Tour, with the category 2 climb near the end? The stage Degenkolb won, and the stage Cavendish won last Friday, are examples of sprinters winning stages that are well-designed sprint stages - they are sprinters' stages but they are hard enough that many other types of riders think they have a chance, which means the sprinters have to work hard to earn the chance to sprint for the win - which they then deserve if they make it.

You seem to want them to bias the parcours more in favour of pan-flat stages, or bias the points-scoring system in favour of sprinters. The sprinters already get more chances to win than anybody else, and would you really trade the interesting finales that we've had on several stages of the Giro just so that we get a more boring points competition because it's nice and easy for Cav to pick up another ceremonial title?

 

[The Hitch]

Indeed, it isn't right that someone who wins 5 stages (if Cav wins in brescia, which he probably will) loses to someone with a 2nd place and 9 other top-6 (if cuddles gets another three top-6 which wouldn't be surprising)


5 wins should always be >>>>>>>> 10 top-6

So what should be done. Give less points for mountains. TDF do that. And Cav only won the jersey once.

 

[Roderick]

There were plenty of stages which were much more selective than they first appeared, as the racing at this Giro has been much more aggressive than anticipated, partially thanks to the weather. If Cavendish could make it to the end of stage 13 to win it, would it really have been too surprising had he made it in the bunch to pick up minor points at least on the stage Paolini won, or today's stage, if they were raced less aggressively?

The stage Paolini won definitely not. Today's stage maybe, but if you see that he came in 49th after such a steep hill, that's pretty amazing for a pure sprinter like cav

 

[Roderick]

So what should be done. Give less points for mountains. TDF do that. And Cav only won the jersey once.

not necesarily less points for mountainstages, but the points-scheduled should be more balanced towards the top. So a stage win earns more points than three times a 6th place. Last year it was also a climber who won the points jersey, but at least he was a lot of times top-3

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The stage Paolini won definitely not. Today's stage maybe, but if you see that he came in 49th after such a steep hill, that's pretty amazing for a pure sprinter like cav

But you say Cav was more regular and praise his coming 49th on a stage that didn't suit him - but surely Evans is more consistent because he is up there on a much more wide variety of stages? Evans is a more capable all-round cyclist, hence he scores points on more stages, whereas Cav is better at the one task he does.

Cavendish scores points in big stage-winning chunks, Evans scores small points often. It makes for a better battle because it rewards strong sprinters AND all-round cyclists as long as they're good enough. Evans ensuring he gets up near the front of the group on stages like today's shows that he is taking the jersey seriously at least.

Also, I'd value a points jersey win for Cavendish more than his Tour one where the points classification was specifically re-tooled so that it would be easier for him to win. Also, for Cavendish, winning a points competition against the likes of Evans and Betancur on a balanced parcours seems to met at least to be of more value than besting the guys he would be expected to beat 10 times out of 10 like Viviani, Hondo, Modolo and Ventoso in a sprinters' competition.

 

[The Hitch]

The stage Paolini won definitely not. Today's stage maybe, but if you see that he came in 49th after such a steep hill, that's pretty amazing for a pure sprinter like cav

He came 42nd in the stage to Gap, in 2011, when Contador cracked everyone apart from Evans.

Especially impressive considering 10 breakaway riders were allowed to contest the stage, so could have even been mid 30's if the breakaway had been held on a leash.

 

[autologous]

But wouldn't you say that cav was more regular

Cav is quite regular : in a full 75% of the stages so far he is totally invisible.

Consistent!

 

[Roderick]

Cav is quite regular : in a full 75% of the stages so far he is totally invisible.

Consistent!

Oh come on, selective quoting is just pathetic

 

[MellowJohnny]

They experimented with biasing the time last year, giving no time bonuses in mountain stages but bonuses in flat stages. It didn't work.

The thing is, the GC isn't biased: all stages pay the same bonuses and time is standard - and unlike the Tour the points competition isn't biased either: all stages pay the same points.

The Tour has biased the points system to try to generate a better competition among the sprinters, the Giro and Vuelta maintain the old system of rewarding consistency. Neither is wrong per se, they're just different. It means that a sprinter has to be multi-faceted to win all three points jerseys, and it makes it more of an achievement to do it. Cav gets (or got) a lot of criticism for being a one-trick pony; he isn't. Winning the points jersey on a balanced Giro parcours would just be the final nail in the coffin of that accusation.

I agree with you.

The think is do people want to see a lot of sprinters go for the points jersey? - You have to say Cavendish aside there is no other premier sprinters left (aside maybe Goss who is not performing) - Degenkolb has gone home after stage 5.

That said I do like the look of Luka Mezgec

 

[Frosty]

20-20 Hindsight speaking here perhaps but i didnt think that Cav stood much chance of staying with the leaders on the last climb, with it being so steep. If he was just after the points jersey then maybe a better strategy today would have been for his team to do no work. If the break stays out front then there would be less effort on the front of the peloton on the climb (no time bonusses or stage wins on offer) and so he would stand a better chance of catching back up with the front, and his team would be fresher. If the break is brought back then he his team would still be fresher and stand a better chance of bringing him back to the front (although that wouldnt have worked as things panned out).

Having said that, maybe he was hoping for a repeat of the tour 2010 stage that Vino won, the 2009 stage towards the end, etc. Seems to do better on these sort of stages towards the end of a GT.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2010/stage-13

Good effort for giving it a go though.

 

[Kokoso]

Excue me for my uninformed question, but are there any WT points for this jersey? Thank you.

 

[Gloin22]

Nope.

10chars

 

[Gloin22]

Hmmm, Evans sucking quite badly.

Cavendish with a good hope now imo, Evans is not likely to get much better.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Cadel blowing up after his incredible exertions in search of this jersey. At least he tried.

Interesting to see if he has anything left next 2 days or falls away in the style of this ride.

 

[spalco]

Hm. Evans only 25th today, maybe Cavendish does still have a shot.

 

[King Boonen]

Evans can now be given rope on the remaining stages, might get a win still.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Evans will be dropped on the next two stages based on what we saw today. Hard to see Cav not winning it as long as he doesn't crash on sunday.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Evans can now be given rope on the remaining stages, might get a win still.

Yeah, a guy in 2nd will be given rope, Sky will have no interest in taking the 10 seconds they need on him.

 

[Red Rick]

How far is Nibali back for this jersey?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

How far is Nibali back for this jersey?

10 behind - he has a reasonable chance of wearing it in to Brescia - depends how keen they are to chase breaks now the GC is sown up.

 

[Froome19]

Far.......

 

[Netserk]

Nibbles to win the next two stages

 

[Cyivel]

How far is Nibali back for this jersey?

I'd say he is more of a challenge than Evans now and will probably be ahead going into the final stage but if Cav wins that he should take it.

 

[movingtarget]

Yeah, a guy in 2nd will be given rope, Sky will have no interest in taking the 10 seconds they need on him.

Or Scarponi.