Giuseppe Martinelli: Contador already better than Armstrong (and Indurain)

[The Hitch]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/con...than-indurain-and-armstrong-claims-martinelli

He says Indurain too but for the moment im more concerned about the Armstrong comment. Also we can put aside the Mercx comment seeing as i dont see Contador winning Ronde PR or MSR.

So who is better.

Im not an Armstrong hater but Contador having won all 3 gts, a stage at all 3 gts, and winning more or less every race he enters edges it for me.

Should be reminded thought that Armstrong won Worlds and FW.

Armstrong scores points for surviving cancer, but Contador had a similar experience with that brain problem and he has a disabled brother so its even.

Oh and there is a reason this thread isnt in the clinic

 

[roundabout]

Contador should do the Giro-Tour double at least once before he will be worthy of polishing Indurain's bicycle.

Martinelli is full of crap as usual.

 

[No_Balls]

Armstrong for sure.

With Indurain i would wait some years. Mig was a monster in his prime (i think in TT of course).

 

[janraaskalt]

Seven consecutive TdF wins for Armstrong places him miles ahead of Contador. Even participating in the most important bike race in the world 7 times in a row is difficult.

 

[luckyboy]

Contador has won far more than Lance had by this age. And will continue winning.

 

[roundabout]

Contador has won far more than Lance had by this age. And will continue winning.

Except it's not a question of who was better at 29.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Strange, Lance's palmares is probably slightly better than Mig's (although it's very close), and yet I instinctively feel Alberto is already comfortably beyond Lance, but am less comfortable saying the same about Indurain.

On plain palmares, I'd probably say it's a wash atmo.

Lance - 7 tours, worlds, fleche
mig - 5 tours, 2 giro, world & Olympic ITT, couple of paris nice
Bertie - 3 tour, giro(and a half), Vuelta, several stage races.

Alberto obviously gets bonus points for the full set, so its relatively even at the moment. Given his age, I expect him to be miles out front by the end. Not sure where the Mercx comments come from though, the days of anyone winning everything are long gone, so although better riders may come along, the conditions do not exist for anyone to achieve a palmares that matches up to Eddy or the badger anymore.

 

[just some guy]

Wish there was a not yet in the Poll.

I believe that Contador is not quite at the level of Armstrong, 7 GT is 7 GT and no World Title.

But if he continues on in a year or 2 he will pass Armstrong and Indurain and go hunting the Cannonball.

 

[Cobblestoned]

What a knobhead.

No one will ever be bigger than Eddy.

 

[No_Balls]

Alberto obviously gets bonus points for the full set, so its relatively even at the moment. Given his age, I expect him to be miles out front by the end. Not sure where the Mercx comments come from though, the days of anyone winning everything are long gone, so although better riders may come along, the conditions do not exist for anyone to achieve a palmares that matches up to Eddy or the badger anymore.

I thinks it more due to cyclist vs cyclist rather then Palmarés. Those days are over when one man could dominate a whole season.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Strange, Lance's palmares is probably slightly better than Mig's (although it's very close), and yet I instinctively feel Alberto is already comfortably beyond Lance, but am less comfortable saying the same about Indurain.

On plain palmares, I'd probably say it's a wash atmo.

Lance - 7 tours, worlds, fleche
mig - 5 tours, 2 giro, world & Olympic ITT, couple of paris nice
Bertie - 3 tour, giro(and a half), Vuelta, several stage races.

Alberto obviously gets bonus points for the full set, so its relatively even at the moment. Given his age, I expect him to be miles out front by the end. Not sure where the Mercx comments come from though, the days of anyone winning everything are long gone, so although better riders may come along, the conditions do not exist for anyone to achieve a palmares that matches up to Eddy or the badger anymore.

Didn't Lance win "several stageraces" ?

Like TdS, DL....only to name the most important ones.

 

[Ferminal]

Obviously we are all clouded in our judgment, so the poll should be skewed in his favour.

After the Giro he will be only one GT shy of Lance. But he gets points for diversifying (ok, some might want to say 1 Tour = 2 Vueltas and 1.5 Giros but I will not). He's already proven he's the best stage racer of his generation, he doesn't need to go for 8 TdF wins.

If he survives CAS he will win another GT this season. Even if he gets banned, he will come back and win the Giro-Tour or Tour-Vuelta in one of the years following.

Lance's record may be better for now, but Contador can probably be looked at as the better cyclist, if that makes sense.

 

[The Hitch]

The only way Contador could stake a claim against Mercx would be doing the one thing that has never been done before.

Giro, Tour Vuelta, all in one season. And i cant see him doing that. Still wouldnt be better than Merx imo but he could stake a claim for it.

Indurain gets points for doing Giro TOur double, in same season. Twice, and that imo puts him above Lance.

 

[thehog]

Strange, Lance's palmares is probably slightly better than Mig's (although it's very close), and yet I instinctively feel Alberto is already comfortably beyond Lance, but am less comfortable saying the same about Indurain.

On plain palmares, I'd probably say it's a wash atmo.

Lance - 7 tours, worlds, fleche
mig - 5 tours, 2 giro, world & Olympic ITT, couple of paris nice
Bertie - 3 tour, giro(and a half), Vuelta, several stage races.

Alberto obviously gets bonus points for the full set, so its relatively even at the moment. Given his age, I expect him to be miles out front by the end. Not sure where the Mercx comments come from though, the days of anyone winning everything are long gone, so although better riders may come along, the conditions do not exist for anyone to achieve a palmares that matches up to Eddy or the badger anymore.

Alberto and Mercx get bonus points for testing positive and still winning races

 

[Lanark]

No way. Maybe in sheer numbers Conti is close to Armstrong in GT's, and although I like that he has a more varied palmares, it isn't close to 7 consecutive Tour's. Apart from that Contador has (until now, probably going to change in two weeks) won only one GT really confortable, unlike Armstrong, who dominated al his Tour victories (apart from 2003, which was still more confortable than Contador's 2007 and 2010 Tour, or his 2008 Giro).

With Armstrong you didn't even have to watch the Tour, you knew ahead of time that he was gonna win, and how he would do it. Contador doesn't give me that feeling, heck, the 2005 Tour was decided in the first 20km.

I like Contador a lot more than Armstrong, be is nowhere near his level, or palmares.

 

[nobilis]

I don't think it's fair to compare Contador with Merckx.
Merckx comes from a different era where the competition wasn't quite the same as nowadays. Cycling was limited to just few European countries, and there was much less control than now.

 

[Cobblestoned]

No way. Maybe in sheer numbers Conti is close to Armstrong in GT's, and although I like that he has a more varied palmares, it isn't close to 7 consecutive Tour's. Apart from that Contador has (until now, probably going to change in two weeks) won only one GT really confortable, unlike Armstrong, who dominated al his Tour victories (apart from 2003, which was still more confortable than Contador's 2007 and 2010 Tour, or his 2008 Giro).

With Armstrong you didn't even have to watch the Tour, you knew ahead of time that he was gonna win, and how he would do it. Contador doesn't give me that feeling, heck, the 2005 Tour was decided in the first 20km.

I like Contador a lot more than Armstrong, be is nowhere near his level, or palmares.

Don't say that. It was always exciting...
Those were great times.

Half of Germany preparing for the first mountainstage, barbecue and TV in garden or along the roads of TdF, all the Wurst and meat bruzzling on the grill, cold beer.....this year, Armstrong will bonk for sure....ah, ok....next year then.....grill cold again, all the meat lying there and half emptied, warm beers everywhere....silence....next try next year then.

But 2003 was a real party - while then getting maximum penalty in 2005 and party over before it started

 

[Fus087]

If Contador wins this Giro, he's won 6 GTs in a row, over five years (with the fifth year still ongoing). And he's only done 7 GTs so far. Armstrong has won the Tour 7 times, but didn't he also ride the Vuelta at least once, supporting Heras? That would break his winning streak.

Add to that "several stage races" from Contador each year, as compared to Armstrong winning "only" one or two per year.

I have to say that yes, Contador is already better than Armstrong.

 

[Maxiton]

Strange, Lance's palmares is probably slightly better than Mig's (although it's very close), and yet I instinctively feel Alberto is already comfortably beyond Lance, but am less comfortable saying the same about Indurain.

On plain palmares, I'd probably say it's a wash atmo.

Lance - 7 tours, worlds, fleche
mig - 5 tours, 2 giro, world & Olympic ITT, couple of paris nice
Bertie - 3 tour, giro(and a half), Vuelta, several stage races.

Alberto obviously gets bonus points for the full set, so its relatively even at the moment. Given his age, I expect him to be miles out front by the end. Not sure where the Mercx comments come from though, the days of anyone winning everything are long gone, so although better riders may come along, the conditions do not exist for anyone to achieve a palmares that matches up to Eddy or the badger anymore.

In terms of caliber of riding (and rider) Contador is clearly better than either Indurain or Armstrong. (Given especially that medical controls are arguably more effective now.) In terms of his palmares, Contador already has an extraordinary record, with much more to come. Clearly if he continues racing he will amass an amazing record.

Surpassing Merckx, in either quality or quantity of wins, is another thing altogether. Such comparisons are kind of ridiculous. The days of one rider winning everything really are gone. Whoever can bring those days back deserves to be compared to Merckx. And then we still have to get to better.

 

[jobiwan]

Contador's not there yet, IMO, but he's REAAAAALLY close.

 

[Cobblestoned]

If Contador wins this Giro, he's won 6 GTs in a row, over five years (with the fifth year still ongoing). And he's only done 7 GTs so far. Armstrong has won the Tour 7 times, but didn't he also ride the Vuelta at least once, supporting Heras? That would break his winning streak.

Add to that "several stage races" from Contador each year, as compared to Armstrong winning "only" one or two per year.

I have to say that yes, Contador is already better than Armstrong.

So, winning several "smaller" stageraces is better then 1 TdS and 2 Dauphine ?
Lance also did Vuelta in 1998 but "only" getting 4th.
And as a reminder, Alberto actually would have never ridden and won Giro 2008 and Vuelta if he had been allowed to ride the Tour. Same goes for Giro 2011.
And that 2007 Tour was a gift.

While we should generally not only watch at the wins.
Alberto and Lance both have other decent results, but just not winning.
Many people have a "winning"-problem that lets them beeing blind for everything else achieved by cyclists. There can only win one, but other achievements have also to be seen and respected.

 

[forty four]

Alberto and Mercx get bonus points for testing positive and still winning races

yeah true that lol.

 

[Astana1]

It should be noted that Contador raced some of those GTs because he couldn't race the Tour.

Otherwise, when it's all said an done. Assuming he continues to race after this Giro I think he'll be bigger the Indurain and about equal with Lance.

 

[Ferminal]

So, winning several "smaller" stageraces is better then 1 TdS and 2 Dauphine ?

In the last two seasons Contador has won Catalunya, Murcia, Leon, P-N and Algarve.

If you go back further you get 1-2 more P-Ns, Pais Vascos, and more smaller races?

Better than Lance's record in shorter stage races, that's for sure.

 

[benpounder]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/con...than-indurain-and-armstrong-claims-martinelli

So who is better.

But that is not what the story quoted Martinelli as saying (if the translation is correct). Bigger implies having a greater impact upon the sport, not just being a better rider.