Giuseppe Martinelli: Contador already better than Armstrong (and Indurain)

[moi123]

I think Martinelli should know better than most of us armchair 'experts', don't you think?

 

[Barrus]

Lance only won the Tour de France. Alberto already showed that he can win different GTs and other races during a season.
I feel sick when Martinelli compared Pantani and Contador. Pantani wasn't an abstract artist but mentally ill. It's sad but true.

Merckx said the same today, that Contador when he climbs is just as impressive as Pantani in his best days, or something to that effect

 

[dgodave]

No. Contador is not already better than Armstrong.
.
But I think he's going to be.
.

 

[hfer07]

I didn't know that Martinelli was a Contador FanBoy

He's right when he says Conta is better than LA- no doubt
As far as Big Mig goes- I think he's getting closer if not there already- and I'm not talking about amount of titles but Diversity & Quality.
the Merckx level... he's just over exaggerating

 

[Climbing]

Well, let's wait another 10 years before answering this.
If the trend continue like last 4-5 years, then the answer is really easy, considering the anti-doping controls are much stronger nowadays.

But considering that a suspension is likely coming... well that would put a serious stop at AC career, depriving him of 1 TdF and a coming Giro.

If in the mix you put Merckx, than you should consider many other champions, including Coppi, which makes the comparison impossible with those last 20 years.

 

[Cobblestoned]

AC is much younger and at first glance scrolling down to the bottom takes as long, if not longer...

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/teams_fahrer_503.php

I hope you are clever enough to figure out why this is the case, aren't you ?

If not, then just enjoy scrolling and delivering the scrolling argument.

 

[Fus087]

And as a reminder, Alberto actually would have never ridden and won Giro 2008 and Vuelta if he had been allowed to ride the Tour.

True. He probably would have won the 2008 Tour then, and have won 4 consecutive Tours until now.

Whether he would have done the 2011 Giro without the CAS case, we honestly can't know. Maybe he would have attempted the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple, or at least the Giro-Tour double, anyway.
You're right that the 2007 Tour was a gift, though.

About the focus on wins: Even here I regard Contador as better. He clearly doesn't focus on one race only, treating everything else as training. He's a favourite in every stage race and also in most one-day race he enters. Armstrong often started the season only soft-pedalling in something à la Circuit de la Sarthe.

 

[Echoes]

(1)Cycling was limited to just few European countries, and (2) there was much less control than now.

1 is wrong and 2 is wrong too.

Merckx only tested positive in the last year of his career and for an insignificant substance (stimul). There was much testing and no counter-expertise. Riders couldn't defend themselves.

Clentador's palmares has zero value.

 

[rhubroma]

1 is wrong and 2 is wrong too.

Merckx only tested positive in the last year of his career and for an insignificant substance (stimul). There was much testing and no counter-expertise. Riders couldn't defend themselves.

Clentador's palmares has zero value.

No that's stupid. It's like saying LA's record has no value, simply because he tested positive in 6 samples from the 99 Tour.

 

[Fus087]

Conti's won every GT he's entered so far, so which is his 7th?

2005 Tour, finished as 31st.
To be fair, he was stopped from riding the 2006 Tour because of Puerto, he probably wouldn't have won that one either.

 

[Angliru]

Lance only won the Tour de France. Alberto already showed that he can win different GTs and other races during a season.
I feel sick when Martinelli compared Pantani and Contador. Pantani wasn't an abstract artist but mentally ill. It's sad but true.

I don't think you give Pantani enough credit. IMO he wasn't the mental case for his entire career that your post implies you believe he was. Only after his arrest by the Italian police and public humiliation did his career and life begin to spiral out of control and plummet. Before that he was simply a magnificent pure climber that didn't race using the usual tactics of grand tour contenders.
He had the strength of determination, heart and love for the sport to come back from a serious injury that resulted from crash involving an automobile on a training ride. I'm leaving out the clinic details because it was all rampant in the sport during that period.

I can only guess at what Martinelli meant by Pantani being an "abstract artist". Pantani's racing was by the heart, impulsive and often driven by his emotions. Not structured or over strategized. This is based on my limited knowledge of his exploits beginning with my first exposure to him in 1994 at the Tour.

 

[CosmicRocker]

OK, I will admit, I don’t care too much for Contador. But to even mention him as being comparable to Merckx is laughable.

In his first TdF, he won the Yellow jersey, the Green jersey, the Polka Dot jersey and also won the Most Combative award. Has anyone else even come close to that kind of dominance . . . . ever?

Back when the Armstrong/Ullrich feud was at its height, neither one of them took advantage of the other if one had a mechanical issue.

Armstrong crashed at Luz Ardiden, Ullrich slowed till Lance was back on the bike. Ullrich went off the road, Lance waited to see if Ullrich was able to continue.

Last year, Andy Schleck had a mechanical, Contador attacked. Contador’s first TdF was essentially won because Michael Rasmussen was kicked out of the Tour. NOT for doping, but because he was training in a different location than the UCI thought he was. Most likely, had he not been fired on the spot, he would have won that year, not AC.

Just saying.

 

[hfer07]

I'm thinking it's not doing Contador any favors by making such statements, which in my opinion are a bit over the top. Saying he'll top Merckx is really bordering on the ridiculous. Contador is the pre-eminent stage racer of his era and is potentially one of the best of all time.

In comparing him to Indurain, he isn't even beyond Indurain's accomplishments yet:
-The first to win 5 consecutive Tour de France's
-Won his 2 Giro the same year as his first 2 Tour's
-TT World Champion
-Olympic Champion

and Armstrong:
-7 Tours
-WC road race
-Fleche Wallone
-San Sebastian

I'm not even going to try to list Merckx's palmares.

Contador could surpass the quality of Indurain and Armstrong's records but let us give him a chance to do so. This is not to mention riders like Coppi and Hinault that Martinelli failed bring into this equation.

Personally I'm just going to enjoy what is left of Contador's career, hope he stays healthy and has the same luck in avoiding major injuries/crashes/setbacks that Armstrong had prior to his 2009 return to the sport and after his bout with cancer.

+1000
well written & explained.
I still think Contador is better than LA-not due to the bulk of GT titles, but as the rider's attitude towards cycling in its entire definition. LA should have explored more other races apart from the Tour to have earned more respect in the Cycling History, but we already know why he didn't-whereas Contador brings to new generations that almost forgotten notion of being a champion in all kinds terrains & races throughout the year's calender-and that is more promising than a 7 tours titles alone.

as you wisely said- Martinelli should have thought about Hinault & Coppi-and I'm adding Anquetil too- way before he gets to Merckx

 

[luckyboy]

1 is wrong and 2 is wrong too.

Merckx only tested positive in the last year of his career and for an insignificant substance (stimul). There was much testing and no counter-expertise. Riders couldn't defend themselves.

Clentador's palmares has zero value.

So Contador's palmares has no value after testing positive once for a miniscule amount of clenbuterol, but Merckx is not in this boat despite testing positive for reactivan, norophedrine and pemoline?

 

[Angliru]

1 is wrong and 2 is wrong too.

Merckx only tested positive in the last year of his career and for an insignificant substance (stimul). There was much testing and no counter-expertise. Riders couldn't defend themselves.

Clentador's palmares has zero value.

That is pretty extreme and based on your inability to use his actual name in your post means your credibility is of even lesser value.

 

[Echoes]

So Contador's palmares has no value after testing positive once for a miniscule amount of clenbuterol, but Merckx is not in this boat despite testing positive for reactivan, norophedrine and pemoline?

Documentate about Savona. Then we talk ...

 

[SiAp1984]

In what twisted universe Contador suffered on Tourmalet last year? He went easy there, following Andy without any problems. He could have win it if he wanted to and that was him out-of-form.

I remember that certain stage quite clearly. ACs face was a mask. He managed to hold A. Schlecks wheel, no doubt. But he wasn't capable to drop him. He tried once - fierce acceleration - and failed. I guess he felt his limits in that stage. And I don't think he was out of form. He did not have his unnatural ITT shape from 2009 - which still is a huge mystery vor a decent, but not world-class ITT-rider like him. But that is a topic to be discussed at the clinic. His climbing still was good - but Schleck simply was able to match and even drop - just ahead of Chain gate - him.

BTW: I'm impressed that AC is THAT honest, http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-the-giro-ditalia-could-be-won-in-the-hotel . I guess he won almost every single one of his GTs in the hotel or at the bus

 

[Scirea]

Haters gonna hate.

 

[El Pistolero]

I remember that certain stage quite clearly. ACs face was a mask. He managed to hold A. Schlecks wheel, no doubt. But he wasn't capable to drop him. He tried once - fierce acceleration - and failed. I guess he felt his limits in that stage. And I don't think he was out of form. He did not have his unnatural ITT shape from 2009 - which still is a huge mystery vor a decent, but not world-class ITT-rider like him. But that is a topic to be discussed at the clinic. His climbing still was good - but Schleck simply was able to match and even drop - just ahead of Chain gate - him.

BTW: I'm impressed that AC is THAT honest, http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-the-giro-ditalia-could-be-won-in-the-hotel . I guess he won almost every single one of his GTs in the hotel or at the bus

Yeah, he just beat Richie Porte in the time trial this year. 4th at WC last year, no? There's really not that many better tt specialists than Contador out there. You can count them on your one hand.

 

[saganftw]

is contador better than armstrong and indurain? probably yes

are his palmares better than those of LA and indurain? hell no

and comparing merckx to anyone is ridiculous,it was 40+ years ago,gimme a break

when it comes to "best ever" i always asked myself who would i choose to be my leader...in 60s/70s i would pick merckx,since 80s i d pick contador,cycling has changed too much to say who is the best,its not like hockey or football where u can pretty much say gretzky and pele- other arguments are invalid

 

[Scirea]

Who would you pick to win a 3 weeks GT for you? Let's say really hard in the mountains, kinda like this Giro but with one more long ITT instead of the short ITT and the TTT.

I'd choose Contador.

 

[c&cfan]

OK, I will admit, I don’t care too much for Contador. But to even mention him as being comparable to Merckx is laughable.

In his first TdF, he won the Yellow jersey, the Green jersey, the Polka Dot jersey and also won the Most Combative award. Has anyone else even come close to that kind of dominance . . . . ever?

Back when the Armstrong/Ullrich feud was at its height, neither one of them took advantage of the other if one had a mechanical issue.

Armstrong crashed at Luz Ardiden, Ullrich slowed till Lance was back on the bike. Ullrich went off the road, Lance waited to see if Ullrich was able to continue.

Last year, Andy Schleck had a mechanical, Contador attacked. Contador’s first TdF was essentially won because Michael Rasmussen was kicked out of the Tour. NOT for doping, but because he was training in a different location than the UCI thought he was. Most likely, had he not been fired on the spot, he would have won that year, not AC.

Just saying.

posts like this one are garbage. you don't make sense in a single sentence, how's that possible?
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hitch, I am really disappointed with your first post.

Contador, Armstrong, Indurain are all better athletes than merckx ever was. this isn't taste or like\hate, this is a fact. in merckx time, 5 pros vs amateurs, where the best was the winner in every race\stage. that's it. that will never happen again, just like we will never live like monkeys again. that's nothing to do with one's talent...

however merckx was, most likely, the sport's biggest selling product, the sport's biggest image, an hard man wining after huge physical efforts.

martinelli believes contador can take that place, like armstrong almost did.

--------------------------------------------

about the contador vs armstrong vs indurain

all amazing athletes, contador the best pure climber, indurain the best TTer, armstrong the best tour machine maybe, a little (a lot) of both.

talent says (just like armstrong said) that contador is the ONE, he is still young (28), in a era of specialized cyclists and peaks, still he can do what he does, dominating stage races and GTs. the giro contenders simple won't be strong enough to show something in the tour, they don't do it as prep for le tour anymore like they did even in indurain's time.

and, for last, 2 things:

tour =\= 1.5giro, in fact, this year, the big champs are all trying to win it, all (besides andy) peaking for it, so this is more worthy than win the tour this year.

i believe martinelli is right, however because we live in pure stupidity, contador can surpass anyone but he will never sports biggest brand ever. simply because people don't focus in cycling like they did in the 50\60\70\80. because, even if the level in cycling is more equal now in relation to drugs that it ever was, this sport is "dirty" (general opinion).

 

[The Hitch]

posts like this one are garbage. you don't make sense in a single sentence, how's that possible?
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hitch, I am really disappointed with your first post.

.

What post?

 

[La Pandera]

posts like this one are garbage. you don't make sense in a single sentence, how's that possible?
--------------------------

Was such harshness actually necessary? You could have simply overlooked the post entirely instead of being so insulting.

 

[9000ft]

Mercyx, Armstrong, Indurain, Hinault, Contador.... All different riders of different generations and eras. There's no way to accurately compare them. They were all dominate riders of their day. Contador is certainly the dominate GT rider of his generation and I won't be surprised to see him win many more GTs and other races in the future. (assuming he doesn't end up with a suspension).