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Giuseppe Martinelli: Contador already better than Armstrong (and Indurain)

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Is Contador already better than Armstrong

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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Sep 16, 2010
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Lance- gold digger baby mama, oh yes Anna had quit the reputation in Boulder pre Lance

Lance- Jet paid for with cancer donations

Lance- 3 other kids he dumped just like his dad

I'd say Gunderson by a nose
 
Jul 18, 2010
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CosmicRocker said:
Last year, Andy Schleck had a mechanical. As soon as he did, Contador launched an attack. He even apologized later for attacking, thus admitting he was wrong.



Contador didn't actually win that TdF so much as it was handed to him after Rasmussen was kicked out. I watched that tour. There were times when AC tried to outkick Rasmussen in the mountains, but couldn't. If Rasmussen had been allowed to finish, he would have won, not Contador.

Your revised version of history is interesting but unfortunately it is inaccurate. If you review the action of that particular scene, Andy attacked, Vino was the first to respond with Contador next. Andy had already dropped his chain and was slowing significantly by the time Contador rolled by. Andy attacked because he saw that Contador was not positioned to respond quickly. By initiating the aggressions Andy was responsible for what followed, unfortunately he never anticipated it being his throwing his chain. If one attacks and stumbles as Andy did, he can't seriously expect his opponents to suddenly soft pedal so that he can get his sheeeit together.
I can't remember who said it but quoting them, "If you draw your sword in battle and drop it, you die."
 
Jul 18, 2010
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Polish said:
Lance was a better stage racer and had greater Grand Tour Potential at 21.
What did Alberto do at 21? Tour of Poland stage win?

Lance was a better All Around Rider at 37.
Alberto will be watching TdF's and Rhonde's at that age burp.

And Lance was a better rider ALL the years in between.
(except the deathbed years)

Lance couldn't finish the Tour at 21 so the only grand tour potential he had was in possibly chasing stage wins.

At 37 Contador left Lance twittering mindlessly, using every underhanded means at his disposal to unsuccessfully rattle a rider that he saw was not in the least intimidated.

At 38, so intimidated and rattled by his inability to rattle the young upstart, and overwhelmed by the whippersnappers insolence in dropping him in the mountains like the geezer that he was, Armstrong completely lost his focus and suffered more crashes in 2 seasons than his entire career.;)
 
La Pandera said:
Your revised version of history is interesting but unfortunately it is inaccurate. If you review the action of that particular scene, Andy attacked, Vino was the first to respond with Contador next. Andy had already dropped his chain and was slowing significantly by the time Contador rolled by. Andy attacked because he saw that Contador was not positioned to respond quickly. By initiating the aggressions Andy was responsible for what followed, unfortunately he never anticipated it being his throwing his chain. If one attacks and stumbles as Andy did, he can't seriously expect his opponents to suddenly soft pedal so that he can get his sheeeit together.
I can't remember who said it but quoting them, "If you draw your sword in battle and drop it, you die."

Problem is Contador then claimed not to see Andrew stop when replays show he had a few seconds to see a big yellow jersey standing next to a bike as he passed.

His best defense however, and a very good one, is simply to say, "Did you wait for me on stage 3 Andy? No? THen go **** yourself".
 
CosmicRocker said:
OK, I will admit, I don’t care too much for Contador. But to even mention him as being comparable to Merckx is laughable.

In his first TdF, he won the Yellow jersey, the Green jersey, the Polka Dot jersey and also won the Most Combative award. Has anyone else even come close to that kind of dominance . . . . ever?

Back when the Armstrong/Ullrich feud was at its height, neither one of them took advantage of the other if one had a mechanical issue.

Armstrong crashed at Luz Ardiden, Ullrich slowed till Lance was back on the bike. Ullrich went off the road, Lance waited to see if Ullrich was able to continue.

Last year, Andy Schleck had a mechanical, Contador attacked. Contador’s first TdF was essentially won because Michael Rasmussen was kicked out of the Tour. NOT for doping, but because he was training in a different location than the UCI thought he was. Most likely, had he not been fired on the spot, he would have won that year, not AC.

Just saying.

The whole thing with Armstrong and waiting was a joke. Simply an American who didn't really understand the unwritten rules. His attempts to appear magnanimous were consistently panned by the recipients of these gestures, notably Pantani and Ullrich.

Any of the Champions of the past would have buried Schleck and said as much afterwards. Contador's only problem was not just coming out and saying "hell yes, I put the hammer down". He wasn't sure what to do.

To heck with all this waiting nonsense. Put the hammer down.
 
May 26, 2009
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La Pandera said:
Your revised version of history is interesting but unfortunately it is inaccurate. If you review the action of that particular scene, Andy attacked, Vino was the first to respond with Contador next. Andy had already dropped his chain and was slowing significantly by the time Contador rolled by. Andy attacked because he saw that Contador was not positioned to respond quickly. By initiating the aggressions Andy was responsible for what followed, unfortunately he never anticipated it being his throwing his chain. If one attacks and stumbles as Andy did, he can't seriously expect his opponents to suddenly soft pedal so that he can get his sheeeit together.
I can't remember who said it but quoting them, "If you draw your sword in battle and drop it, you die."

That was Ryder Hesjedal.
 
May 14, 2010
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red_flanders said:
And as if it needs to be said, Merckx won 500 of the 1500 races he entered.

Not placed. Won. A third. 500 races.

That is beyond belief. No one has even close to half his career, any way you slice or dice it. He is beyond comparison, literally.

+1. Thank you for that.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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red_flanders said:
And as if it needs to be said, Merckx won 500 of the 1500 races he entered.

Not placed. Won. A third. 500 races.

That is beyond belief. No one has even close to half his career, any way you slice or dice it. He is beyond comparison, literally.

May I add that no one will ever even come close.








A child of 2 would understand this. Someone fetch a child of 2.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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VeloCity said:
Do cycling fans want to see another reign of a dominant individual (speaking strictly in terms of GTs)? Personally I found both the Indurain and Armstrong years as kind of boring in their processional, year-after-year repetition, and I'm a little concerned that it's going to be the same with Contador over the next few years. True, Contador seems a little more vulnerable than did Indurain or Armstrong - last year's TdF, for eg - and Andy S is not that far off Contador and still improving and there's Basso and Evans still and maybe Nibali and Sanchez and Gesink might continue to improve, but on the other hand Contador hasn't reached his peak yet, either.

I guess I just find GTs more interesting when there isn't a single dominant rider who's expected to win and it's no surprise when he does win.
My thoughts, exactly. The best races have always been those where there was a sense of uncertainty & ultimately a real scrap for the win. 1983-1990 were all great for this reason. 1991-95 were metronomic in that you knew once the TT was over it was all over bar the shouting. 1998 & 99 were better but then 2000-2005 settled back into the predictable pattern again.

Contador seems to be less domineering compared to Armstrong but he does actually race from earlier in the season usually. When did Armstrong actually ride Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico to win? Don't remember him starting L-B-L or Fleche either after his cancer.

Even Indurain used to treat the calendar with a little more regard for the heritage of the sport. Contador and the Schlecks seem to be returning to the same ways too. Pity they haven't got a tactical braincell between them, but that's a whole different conversation!
 
Oct 8, 2010
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janraaskalt said:
That's not the point. If Contador would retire today, how would we look back at his carreer 10 years from now? Bigger than Armstrong's? No way, not even close.

Exactly! I second that. And Contador's retirement isn't even out of the question yet. Should CAS rule a 2 year suspension he'll have 2 GT's less on his palmares and IF he comes back after that who knows if he can perform at the same level.

Thinking about it that'd be a first: Winning the TdF after a 2 year suspension! He might be in for bonus points there...
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Obviously we are all clouded in our judgment, so the poll should be skewed in his favour.

After the Giro he will be only one GT shy of Lance. But he gets points for diversifying (ok, some might want to say 1 Tour = 2 Vueltas and 1.5 Giros but I will not). He's already proven he's the best stage racer of his generation, he doesn't need to go for 8 TdF wins.

If he survives CAS he will win another GT this season. Even if he gets banned, he will come back and win the Giro-Tour or Tour-Vuelta in one of the years following.

Lance's record may be better for now, but Contador can probably be looked at as the better cyclist, if that makes sense.
this is pretty close to my assessment.

one thing that needs to be emphasized is that martinelli is not prone to loud and flashy rhetoric.he is almost reticent...

when he spoke of a still young rider in terms of future cycling legacy, to me, it sounded well thought out...

he particularly stressed the strength of contador's mind, not so much the superiority of his physiology.

as to getting close to eddy's record, i don't believe so but who knows ?

contador is definitely very calculating and very hungry for winning. he almost always chooses races that fit his characteristics to a 't' and that he can win. with such attitude he may approach the magic '1/3'
 
Mar 31, 2010
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No_Balls said:
Armstrong for sure.

With Indurain i would wait some years. Mig was a monster in his prime (i think in TT of course).

exactly. he has overtaken lance but indurain not only in results but also in way of racing was from a different planet.
 
Feb 25, 2010
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Voted NO because I think he is not YET better than Armstrong, but he will be in 1-2 years.

Of course no way AC will match Eddy on the overall, but if you take only GTs won he may come close at some point.
 
Oct 6, 2010
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Contador far and away, Armstrong focused his whole career around the tour and wile what he achieved was fantastic Contador has won a far better variety of races. He is also still young and i can see him becoming one of the greatest ever. I dount he will ever reach the level of Eddy, but he may surpass Indurain but that wont be for a few years IMO.
 
Jul 21, 2010
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Imho Contador is comparable with Lance and Indurain, especially if you consider the "eras" they respectively participated in. However, if Contador manages a triple at some point - which I think is possible given his talent, and with total support from Riis - he will equal Merckx. I don't think anyone will ever be able to surpass Merckx, it would be like comparing the success of Caesarian Rome to that of Augustus' Empire. Each man succeeded on some terms which just was not available to the other.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
exactly. he has overtaken lance but indurain not only in results but also in way of racing was from a different planet.

Sucking wheels and win the Tour in the TT?

I'm glad Indurain doesn't compare to Contador. All I know is, it's not Indurain who's the best climber. And if he was, he almost never showed it.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Opalius said:
However, if Contador manages a triple at some point - which I think is possible given his talent, and with total support from Riis - he will equal Merckx. I don't think anyone will ever be able to surpass Merckx, it would be like comparing the success of Caesarian Rome to that of Augustus' Empire. Each man succeeded on some terms which just was not available to the other.
While it would be an incredible feat it still wouldn't make your contention valid. Merckx is truly on another level when compared to riders from both his era and those that followed. He won GT Doubles in the same years as he won multiple Monuments. In particular he won MSR, LBL & FW, the Giro & Tour AND Lombardia in 1972. No rider could ever hope to match that. Armstrong could have not retired, won every Tour from 99 to date and still be a eon away from that level. Contador could get a little closer but he'll still come up short.

There have been many references to Merckx & Indurain being on another planet. When you look into Merckx's record it becomes obvious that he was in another solar system!
 
El Pistolero said:
Sucking wheels and win the Tour in the TT?

Nah, he didn´t suck wheel all the time. Tourmalet (-91), Sestriére (-92), Galibier (-93), Hautacam (-94) and La Plagne (-95). That is an urban myth who was created due to his efforts in the Time Trials.

He didn´t just win in the time trials. He blew everyone out of sight (we talk about minutes).

I'm glad Indurain doesn't compare to Contador. All I know is, it's not Indurain who's the best climber. And if he was, he almost never showed it.

I am one of those who think Indurain could win at every mountain stage he wanted to. At least if the climb wasn´t too steep.

Have a look at this clip from La Plagne -95. A display not far off from Contas Etna-win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhEKRjhLuds

The power in that man was from another world.
 
Jul 21, 2010
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ultimobici said:
While it would be an incredible feat it still wouldn't make your contention valid. Merckx is truly on another level when compared to riders from both his era and those that followed. He won GT Doubles in the same years as he won multiple Monuments. In particular he won MSR, LBL & FW, the Giro & Tour AND Lombardia in 1972. No rider could ever hope to match that. Armstrong could have not retired, won every Tour from 99 to date and still be a eon away from that level. Contador could get a little closer but he'll still come up short.

Riders have become too specialized to ever be able to win on that many different terrains. No one will ever be able to win the same amount of diverse events as Merckx. Therefore no one will be able to surpass him.

With a triple - and this is purely speculative thinking - Contador would, in our/his time, become as spectacularly winning as Merckx was in his. Who knows, if he can race on about the current level for another four-five years the sky is the limit.

Anyway, it all comes down to personal preferences. I was not even born when Merckx won his last professional victory, and thus it becomes all the easier to attribute a more modern rider the same kind of credentials. *shrugs
 
Opalius said:
Riders have become too specialized to ever be able to win on that many different terrains. No one will ever be able to win the same amount of diverse events as Merckx. Therefore no one will be able to surpass him.

With a triple - and this is purely speculative thinking - Contador would, in our/his time, become as spectacularly winning as Merckx was in his. Who knows, if he can race on about the current level for another four-five years the sky is the limit.

Anyway, it all comes down to personal preferences. I was not even born when Merckx won his last professional victory, and thus it becomes all the easier to attribute a more modern rider the same kind of credentials. *shrugs

The big question is whether or not Merckx would be so dominant today? I think not.

Or would Contador have been as dominant as Merckx was in his era? I think not. Though he'd probably have taken several grand tours (and perhaps not only) from the great Eddie and so the latter would have won rather less.

It is thus extreamly difficult to compare riders from different generations of such a chronological and historical (as far as the sport goes) gap.

Cycling's changed too much. However, if we only go back 15 to 20 years then, in my mind, he would have defeated both Miguel and Lance on multiple occassions in the Grand Tours. I think, talent wise (that is as a purely physical specimen), he's probably the greatest cyclist since Merckx for sure.
 
No_Balls said:
Nah, he didn´t suck wheel all the time. Tourmalet (-91), Sestriére (-92), Galibier (-93), Hautacam (-94) and La Plagne (-95). That is an urban myth who was created due to his efforts in the Time Trials.

He didn´t just win in the time trials. He blew everyone out of sight (we talk about minutes).



I am one of those who think Indurain could win at every mountain stage he wanted to. At least if the climb wasn´t too steep.

Have a look at this clip from La Plagne -95. A display not far off from Contas Etna-win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhEKRjhLuds

The power in that man was from another world.

Agreed. Indurain was content to mark his opponents, looking at the big picture: winning the Tour. He was humble to a fault, not looking for total domination in the mountains and allowing others to gain glory by winning stages that had no bearing on his overall success. I believe one year, possibly growing tired of the media proclaiming his lack of aggressiveness in the mountains, he decided to put on a display and win a mtf.

All this talk of Indurain has inspired me to snatch up the 5 Tour set of his wins that was relatively recently made available.
 

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