Give Lance a chance

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buckwheat said:
Armstrong is finished when he's held in lower regard than Landis by the General Public.

He's finished when other Pro's would sooner talk about Floyd than Armstrong.

When you have every name in cycling affectionately referring to Pharmstrong as "Lance," he's far from over.

This isn't even the beginning of the end.

It may be the end of the beginning...

Sadly agree with you.

The only thing worse than the arrogance of LA is the ignorance and short memory of the general public. He will never do time in my opinion but he needs to be disgraced in front of the world. The cycling world will not be affected because of the doping going on now anyway.
 
buckwheat said:
Almost EVERYONE is still scared of him.

I was going to go thru your whole post but it's laughable.

Get outside of the cycling world and see what people think about him. The guy has sustained a few minor dings and scratches.

Whichever way I look at it, if Pharmstrong isn't indicted, he goes on living like a Prince.

The ONLY issues for the clinic, regarding Armstrong and the rest of the dopers, are political ones.

Your post is just a head shaker.....:eek:
This is where things will get interesting. From far away, and thanks to the fact that the US investigation is surprising leakproof (unlike investigations in France where you would think there is a direct link to all news outlets) it is difficult to get a good idea of just where Nowitzky is going and what he has on Lancy-poo. If it just comes down to a simple doping case, Armstrong has a good chance of squeezing out of it with his reputation relatively untarnished in the eyes of the general public who is totally clueless about the reality and really doesn't care. If, on the other hand, there is enough usable proof about the imposing of doping on teammates and the financing and organisation of team doping then he is in big trouble. Not to mention tax invasion, trafficking etc. So for now I think we just have to wait and see where this is all going.

In any case, Armstrong is damaged goods, although how much so waits to be seen and is contingent on what if any charges are brought against him and whether they stick. Time will tell if his high powered PR machine can overcome this with time or whether he will slide gradually into the background - which he will resist with a vengence.

I would think a lot of the cycling world is still licking his @ss fearing retribution in case he comes out of this intact and is free to wield his usual destruction on his detractors.
 
frenchfry said:
This is where things will get interesting. From far away, and thanks to the fact that the US investigation is surprising leakproof (unlike investigations in France where you would think there is a direct link to all news outlets) it is difficult to get a good idea of just where Nowitzky is going and what he has on Lancy-poo....
Don't put it past Prance and Fagan to provide their own leads to the French media in the hopes of a discrediting PR strategy and an opportunity to play the Freedom Fry card (sorry FF). Team Landis wasn't afraid of a few dirty tricks, and we all know that Pharmstrong hates to play second fiddle to anyone.

Dave.
 
D-Queued said:
Don't put it past Prance and Fagan to provide their own leads to the French media in the hopes of a discrediting PR strategy and an opportunity to play the Freedom Fry card (sorry FF). Team Landis wasn't afraid of a few dirty tricks, and we all know that Pharmstrong hates to play second fiddle to anyone.

Dave.
There is virtually no coverage here of the US investigation into Armstrong, other than new agency releases once in a while (like when Novitzky came a few weeks ago). The average person on the street probably isn't even aware that the investigation is happening. I was surprised to see that there will be an interview on Stade 2 today, French television coverage tends to be totally pro-Armstrong with only lip service given to the darker side of his story. It will be interesting to see what slant they give the interview and analysis.
 

Franbob

BANNED
Nov 8, 2010
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TubularBills said:
Desperation at best from the Armstrong camp.

Some supporting evidence:

The investigation wouldn't have gone on this long without compelling and motivating iron clad evidence.

Novitsky has a handicap in that the breadcrumbs provide an easily followed trail.

Armstrong has exhibited a remarkable and ill advised public exhibition of taunting and arrogance, as in, I'm too important and too bad asxed to fall.

His own lack of humility and excessive Hubris will undermine any jury sympathy.

The harder they come, the harder they fall.

In the end, The jury will relish crushing the teflon coating and the transparent and obviously manufactured smug insistence of innocence.

Lance is bush league, able to easily control sport centric allies, but ineffective in the real stakes environment of a Grand Jury. This arena will illuminate the subterfuge and with a preponderance of evidence will clearly indicate guilt to an unbiased jury. This isn't OJ.

The majority of the population doesn't give a hoot who LA is, just another spoiled benefactor, coddled by a greedy industry under corrupt oversight.

Guilty as charged.

Happy Thanksgiving to the Clinic!
Actually I think you're wrong, his public exposure is quite calculated and probably a good ploy from his point of view. By keeping himself in the public eye and ensuring his public exposure with the political elite such as Clinton etc, he puts himself in a stronger position. I find it interesting that high profile political figures are, by and large still happy to be seen with him and to be involved with promoting his causes.

I am willing to bet that behind the closed doors he already has assurances that he will not be the primary target of the investigation in terms of court action. I think that the last thing the current administration needs or wants is another high profile case against one of the 'greatest American Hero's". I may be wrong but it's the feeling I get.

I guess we won't have to wait too long to find out.
 
May 26, 2010
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Franbob said:
Actually I think you're wrong, his public exposure is quite calculated and probably a good ploy from his point of view. By keeping himself in the public eye and ensuring his public exposure with the political elite such as Clinton etc, he puts himself in a stronger position. I find it interesting that high profile political figures are, by and large still happy to be seen with him and to be involved with promoting his causes.

I am willing to bet that behind the closed doors he already has assurances that he will not be the primary target of the investigation in terms of court action. I think that the last thing the current administration needs or wants is another high profile case against one of the 'greatest American Hero's". I may be wrong but it's the feeling I get.

I guess we won't have to wait too long to find out.
Considering cycling in the america is a minority sport Armstrong is hardly one of america's greatest heroes? in his own mind he is the second coming!

if the investigation is not Armstrong centric i doubt they would have travelled to europe and 'wasted tax payers money'.

is Armstrong is the single target, i doubt it, but he is part of a 'syndicate' for want of a better word and he has his finger in most of the action that is being investigated and he is probably the easiest link to tie them all together.
 
You guys are not seeing what I'm seeing:- the guy is touring provincial hospitals. He's not speaking to main stream press. He can't. There has been several articles published about his lie - The Mens Journal being the most detailed.. The WSJ and the Daily News have been leading the way in publishing stories on the scant amount of information that has come from the case.*

Cast your mind back to the start of Comeback 2.0. The idea would be for Armstrong to win the 2010 Tour retire and go on the celebratory circuit cashing in. At this point he's hidden away. Taunting the Feds from a secondary faux Twitter feed is fairly lame. Armstrong of old took all of his fights into the media and won. Nov has learnt from Contador in 2009 - Don't fight Armstrong in the media. He likes the bar room brawl. Don't stoop to his level.

Lance is stuck. Until he personally addresses the drug issue he can't face the media.

Americans do care and do know about him. Everytime they see his face now they say - "isn't that the drug guy?"

Like I keep saying. He's finished.*

The only people who want him now are the Kiwi's and Australians.*


Franbob said:
Actually I think you're wrong, his public exposure is quite calculated and probably a good ploy from his point of view. By keeping himself in the public eye and ensuring his public exposure with the political elite such as Clinton etc, he puts himself in a stronger position. I find it interesting that high profile political figures are, by and large still happy to be seen with him and to be involved with promoting his causes.

I am willing to bet that behind the closed doors he already has assurances that he will not be the primary target of the investigation in terms of court action. I think that the last thing the current administration needs or wants is another high profile case against one of the 'greatest American Hero's". I may be wrong but it's the feeling I get.

I guess we won't have to wait too long to find out.
 
May 26, 2010
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thehog said:
You guys are not seeing what I'm seeing:- the guy is touring provincial hospitals. He's not speaking to main stream press. He can't. There has been several articles published about his lie - The Mens Journal being the most detailed.. The WSJ and the Daily News have been leading the way in publishing stories on the scant amount of information that has come from the case.*

Cast your mind back to the start of Comeback 2.0. The idea would be for Armstrong to win the 2010 Tour retire and go on the celebratory circuit cashing in. At this point he's hidden away. Taunting the Feds from a secondary faux Twitter feed is fairly lame. Armstrong of old took all of his fights into the media and won. Nov has learnt from Contador in 2009 - Don't fight Armstrong in the media. He likes the bar room brawl. Don't stoop to his level.

Lance is stuck. Until he personally addresses the drug issue he can't face the media.

Americans do care and do know about him. Everytime they see his face now they say - "isn't that the drug guy?"

Like I keep saying. He's finished.*

The only people who want him now are the Kiwi's and Australians.*

i agree about the taunting of the feds and i have not seen too much about armstrong saving cancer in mainstream press. but i think it is still early days in this whole case. I like that is it moving slowly like a good game of chess, considered moves, thinking far ahead to get the King in the corner. Check mate.
 
Berzin said:
Armstrong doesn't have to go to jail for justice to be served.

Once he sees the mountain of evidence against him (again, not something Barry Bonds had to face, which is why he may successfully beat the charges against him) he will have to, if he's smart, cop a plea to stay out of jail.

But for that to happen, he will have to admit to the organized drug program he participated in.

His Tour victories will not be stricken from the record books but they will be seen as fraudulent.

This will lead to everything else falling apart, as he has predicated his whole athletic persona on clean riding.

The fallout just from that will be enough. I'll take that.
as will I

Archibald said:
some American thing to do with turkeys... quite funny when you consider that this thread is discussing the cooking of a large turkey
yup. His goose is cooked.

thehog said:
You guys are not seeing what I'm seeing:- the guy is touring provincial hospitals. He's not speaking to main stream press. He can't. There has been several articles published about his lie - The Mens Journal being the most detailed.. The WSJ and the Daily News have been leading the way in publishing stories on the scant amount of information that has come from the case.*

Cast your mind back to the start of Comeback 2.0. The idea would be for Armstrong to win the 2010 Tour retire and go on the celebratory circuit cashing in. At this point he's hidden away. Taunting the Feds from a secondary faux Twitter feed is fairly lame. Armstrong of old took all of his fights into the media and won. Nov has learnt from Contador in 2009 - Don't fight Armstrong in the media. He likes the bar room brawl. Don't stoop to his level.

Lance is stuck. Until he personally addresses the drug issue he can't face the media.

Americans do care and do know about him. Everytime they see his face now they say - "isn't that the drug guy?"

Like I keep saying. He's finished.*

The only people who want him now are the Kiwi's and Australians.*
I think you are right there. its certainly not what he had in mind when doing his triumphant comeback ....

Here in Aus we get barely any press about cycling at all - and what we do get is "the Great Lance Armstrong" type press peices as they want to drum up business for the TDU.
 
May 5, 2009
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frenchfry said:
I would think a lot of the cycling world is still licking his @ss fearing retribution in case he comes out of this intact and is free to wield his usual destruction on his detractors.
sad, but true.
 
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