Giving aways stage wins

[Anonymous]

i'll be honest.. it ****es me off when he does it... to me, it just seems completely arrogant

Put yourself in the riders position.

You are in the lead of the race, and you breakaway with another rider. That rider does his fair share of work and helps you build up a lead that pretty much ensures you overall victory.

Would you then outsprint him to take the stage glory as well, or would you be content with what you had and let him have reward for his work.

If you did the former, a) you would be a tosser b) you would find very few riders willing to work with you in the future.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's the main difference between Contador and Armstrong. Contador seems to feel no need to rub his superiority in.

As a Kloden fan I wish that Armstrong had been more like Contador in regards to gifts.

But I actually thought that what AC did in stage 19 was really nice. Some people are just going to hate a guy no matter what he does. I am not a massive AC fan, but geez, the bloke should get nothing but praise for his performances (and sportsmanship) this entire Giro.

 

[Archibald]

I understand why he does it, but I don't like it. Great races deserve great finishes. I think a rider should go over the line, knowing he was the best, not because AC gave it to him.

really dislike the gifts.

certainly agree.
I couldn't take the win if I was in Tiralongo's shoes, it would seem so hollow. Sure you worked your ar$e off to be in that position, but just collecting a soft win that was given to you is just insulting. You earn a win, you don't get given it.
I'd have taken a second to contador knowing that it was a proper race - whenever Tiralongo talks/thinks of having "won" the stage, there'll always be the "you didn't actually win it, because he gave it to you" hanging over it...

 

[JayKosta]

certainly agree.
I couldn't take the win if I was in Tiralongo's shoes, it would seem so hollow. Sure you worked your ar$e off to be in that position, but just collecting a soft win that was given to you is just insulting. You earn a win, you don't get given it.
I'd have taken a second to contador knowing that it was a proper race - whenever Tiralongo talks/thinks of having "won" the stage, there'll always be the "you didn't actually win it, because he gave it to you" hanging over it...

===========================

Well then, does a sprinter WIN the race or was it given to him by the leadout rider, and the other riders that he followed to be near the front at the finish?

Cycling seems to be one of the few sports that depend on so much cooperation among many riders - and YES it does seem unusual, but that's how it is unless you just want TT type events.
Part of the beauty of cycle racing is seeing how riders do cooperate, and seeing the strategy of how & why they do things.

USA NASCAR has some of this too, with the 2-car 'trains' of a front car and a 'pusher' behind. It is not just drafting - the rear car is in contact and pushing the front car --- this has made a huge change in how the races are run.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[erader]

just look at the margins that contador won by. he is a gracious winner. anyone who says he isn't probably agrees with LA, the hog and bottle that he did not "follow the plan".

erader

 

[El Pistolero]

Eddy, "the cannibal" probably never did it. Hinault and Armstrong did sometimes. I think most people are okay with it except maybe the the team sponsors ? It is not strange to see one stage given away but two or three probably indicates how dominant Contador has actually been.

Eddy Merckx gave a Paris-Tours victory away

 

[gregod]

Gregod, pretending that there was some sort of peleton-issued comeuppance for Armstong's "attacking" Contador in 2009 is pretty ridiculous. He sat midpack because Armstrong just didn't have elite legs anymore.

I actually think this year simply shows that Berto is finally learning how to be a gracious patron. (Last year's face-patting of Baby Schleck would not exactly qualify)

i see how you could think that my remarks implied a conspiracy against you-know-who. you are correct that his difficulties last year stemmed from lacking legs. however, they were compounded by the fact the he hadn't earned a better position in the pack. this doesn't necessarily imply a conspiracy. a lot of horse-trading goes on in the pack and if you have nothing to bargain with, your position, opportunities and luck will reflect this.

 

[gregod]

Merckx was called the Cannibal because he never gave away a stage. Since Indurain GC riders don't seem to care as much about stage wins as they used to.

while it is true that merckx was called the cannibal, it was not unheard of for him to reward riders, both on and off his team, that worked for him. if i find a link to a story about such i'll post it later.

 

[gregod]

===========================

...
USA NASCAR has some of this too, with the 2-car 'trains'of a front car and a 'pusher' behind. It is not just drafting - the rear car is in contact and pushing the front car --- this has made a huge change in how the races are run.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

i don't know about nascar, but the effect your a talking about is less from direct pushing than from fluid dynamics. at those speeds, two objects close together can move through a fluid faster than one.

 

[Izzy eviel]

A classy move by Contador. If he'd won, it'd just be another win, but to Tiralongo it's the highlight of his career. He was just as deserving a winner as Contador would've been. He's in a race with 160 other men and he was right up at the front on merit.

Anyone who has a bet on on a cycling race needs there head examined. Far too many variables.

 

[lucybears]

certainly agree.
I couldn't take the win if I was in Tiralongo's shoes, it would seem so hollow. Sure you worked your ar$e off to be in that position, but just collecting a soft win that was given to you is just insulting. You earn a win, you don't get given it.
I'd have taken a second to contador knowing that it was a proper race - whenever Tiralongo talks/thinks of having "won" the stage, there'll always be the "you didn't actually win it, because he gave it to you" hanging over it...

Is it insulting when you know that you worked your ar$e off previously to obtain the (overall) win for the man? Or rather it is taken in the way it was meant, as a big 'thank you'. As the group as a whole was in danger of swallowing up Tiralongo toward the end of the stage, was it not the greatest compliment you could get that el madrileño, who had no reason to do this for himself, deliberately attacks that group (note, successfully), tells you to get on his wheel, encourages you to keep going and delivers you to a (first in a career spent as a domestique) stage victory. If I was Paolo, I would not have been insulted at all !!

What Paolo himself thought about it is here
http://en.cyclingtime.com/news/view/645/CT Exclusive: Paolo Tiralongo

 

[CatsNK]

+1. This does make clear the differences between AC and the Uniballer. One can also argue that AC has had some image problems in the last year and needs to work on this area. But whether it's a calculated PR campaign or genuine sharing with others - I like it.

As a Kloden fan I wish that Armstrong had been more like Contador in regards to gifts.

But I actually thought that what AC did in stage 19 was really nice. Some people are just going to hate a guy no matter what he does. I am not a massive AC fan, but geez, the bloke should get nothing but praise for his performances (and sportsmanship) this entire Giro.

 

[cineteq]

certainly agree.
I couldn't take the win if I was in Tiralongo's shoes, it would seem so hollow. Sure you worked your ar$e off to be in that position, but just collecting a soft win that was given to you is just insulting. You earn a win, you don't get given it.
I'd have taken a second to contador knowing that it was a proper race - whenever Tiralongo talks/thinks of having "won" the stage, there'll always be the "you didn't actually win it, because he gave it to you" hanging over it...

Do your read what actually happened?
- Contador told Tiralongo to attack with 6Km to go
- Contador realized that the riders ahead of him would have caught Tiralongo
- Contador decided to attack to give a hand to his friend (not to win the stage), in the process he got more seconds on his GC rivals - a win-win situation

Tiralongo is the deserved winner...he won't feel hollow.
They guy helped big time Contador in last year's TdF.

 

[Angliru]

Gregod, pretending that there was some sort of peleton-issued comeuppance for Armstong's "attacking" Contador in 2009 is pretty ridiculous. He sat midpack because Armstrong just didn't have elite legs anymore.

I actually think this year simply shows that Berto is finally learning how to be a gracious patron. (Last year's face-patting of Baby Schleck would not exactly qualify)

...and yet Bruyneel insists that Armstrong would've made the podium if not for his string of unfortunate crashes. Who are we to believe?

The "face-patting" of Baby Schleck was IMO a slapping reminder that the stage was a gift and to stop with all the drama as if he had actually won the stage in a contested sprint, which he hadn't. One would have thought so based on his over the top celebration at the line.

 

[md2020]

Gifting stages really makes a mockery of this noble sport. I'd much rather that things were settled with payouts between the DS's like it's always been.

 

[Angliru]

If you can bet on who wins a stage 'gifting' is match fixing. If you can 'gift' someone at long odds it is cheating plain and simple. A small amount of people could make a lot of money if someones wins a mountain stage at long odds, and how do the people feel that had their money on Contador? Cheated thats how. The best athlete or team should win, fixing the result is wrong if you can bet on the individual/game.

I have no sympathy for the betting side of sports and none for those that place the bets. "Gifting" is a part of the sport from its beginnings and if you dont' figure that into the risk involved then that is your loss.

 

[Angliru]

Merckx was called the Cannibal because he never gave away a stage. Since Indurain GC riders don't seem to care as much about stage wins as they used to.

I'm quite certain that the "gifting" didn't begin with Indurain era, nor did it increase.

 

[Angliru]

i see how you could think that my remarks implied a conspiracy against you-know-who. you are correct that his difficulties last year stemmed from lacking legs. however, they were compounded by the fact the he hadn't earned a better position in the pack. this doesn't necessarily imply a conspiracy. a lot of horse-trading goes on in the pack and if you have nothing to bargain with, your position, opportunities and luck will reflect this.

His crashes were more a part of having given up and lost that steely focus. One of his crashes was a result of him clipping a pedal on a curb in a roundabout. He has a history of taking it easy in races that don't matter and by the time he was out of the running, he was simply tooling around on his fairwell tour of France, with the exception of his failed attempted escape in a breakaway, which further exposed him as being a shadow of his former self.

 

[Angliru]

Gifting stages really makes a mockery of this noble sport. I'd much rather that things were settled with payouts between the DS's like it's always been.

How can you call a mockery what is ingrained in the traditions of this "noble" sport? Part of its nobility is the honoring of those that do the grunt work without much fanfare. There is the nobility.

 

[Winterfold]

(Angliru - md2020 even put the sarcasm smiley for you)

Class by Contador, and intelligent racing, maybe he will find himself isolated on a difficult stage but Tiralongo is there, or Vino, or some other handy climber who can trust Contador to give the stage win in return for some help.

Cycling is about shifting alliances, if you are going to bet on it, make an effort to understand how it works - but really stick to horse racing, which is more honestly fixed.