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Good Article from SI.com

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Jun 19, 2009
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VeloCity said:
Problem is the UCI set a precedent by giving Pereiro the '06 Tour win after Landis' positive, and I doubt anyone believes that Pereiro was clean (least of all Landis, judging by his statements about Pereiro while both were on Phonak :) And fair or not, Kloden and Beloki, for eg, while strongly implicated in doping and while no one believes that they were clean, have never actually tested positive, etc. Can you prevent a rider from claiming a "title by default" if he's only been implicated in doping and there's no "real" evidence against him? Is it fair to nix all of the Armstrong years completely and therefore deny (say) Beloki or Kloden their "wins" but allow Pereiro to remain on the record books as the "winner" of the '06 Tour?

Just rhetorical questions btw. It's a royal mess and there's probably no fair or easy way it can possibly be sorted out.

The easy way was stated by Man in Full...vacate the title. Pereiro may be able to have his drink tab picked up in Spain by adoring locals but I haven't seen him trumpeting his accomplishment. Fact is, he and others probably consider it a vacated title unless they could make a buck...Euro.
 
Jul 8, 2009
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eztarget said:
If the UCI is a farce then replace it. If there is no momentum to replace it then except that cheating will always happen. Sports used to NOT be so much about the money but once $$$ is introduced humans will cheat. They have been doing that since the beginning of currency. You will NEVER get rid of it.

When was it that sports were not about money? When they founded the modern Olympics on the sham that only amateurs were true sportsmen, hiding the real intention of not having blue bloods lose to the talented poor who competed for a living? When multi-day pedestrian events died out because the big money triggered doping? When victors in ancient times were granted all sorts of amenities?

It's quite true that individuals may not be motivated by money, even at the highest levels. But high level "sports" always has been to a large extent.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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eztarget said:
I'm not a blind Armstrong supporter so HATERS please spare me. It's pretty obvious that almost EVERYONE was cheating.

Story here.

That said ...

This is how much of a farce it is. Here are the 2000 results:

2000 Tour de France Complete Final General Classification

1.Lance Armstrong (US Postal): 92hr 33min 8sec Busted by USADA
2.Jan Ullrich (Telekom) @ 6min 2sec Operacion Puerto
3.Joseba Beloki (Festina) @ 10min 4sec Operacion Puerto
4.Christophe Moreau (Festina) @ 10min 34sec Festina Affair
5.Roberto Heras (Kelme) @ 11min 50sec Tested positive & suspended, stripped of Vuelta title.
6.Richard Virenque (Polti)@ 13min 26sec Festina Affair
7.Santiago Botero (Kelme)@ 14min 18sec Kelme scandal
8.Fernando Escartin (Kelme)@ 17min 21sec Kelme scandal
9.Francisco Mancebo (Banesto)@ 18min 9sec Tested positive & suspended.
10.Daniele Nardello (Mapei)@ 18min 25sec Implicated in T-Mobile doping scandal
11.Manuel Beltrán (Mapei)@ 21min 11sec Tested positive & suspended.
12.Pascal Hervé (Polti)@ 23min 13sec
13.Javier Ochoa (Kelme)@ 25min Kelme scandal.
14.Felix Garcia-Casas (Festina)@ 32min 4sec Festina affair
15.Alexandre Vinokourov (Telekom) @ 32min 26sec Tested positive for transfusions & suspended (also in T-Mobile scandal).
16.Roberto Conti (Vini Caldirola) @ 34min 18sec
17.Kurt Van De Wouwer (Lotto) @ 34min 29sec
18.Guido Trentin (Vini Caldirola) @ 35min 57sec
19.Jean-Cyril Robin (Bonjour) @ 43min 12sec
20.Geert Verheyen (Lotto) @ 46min 24sec
~
The paper suggests Daniele Nardello would be your new champion, but he was actually implicated in the Telekom/T-Mobile doping scandal later in his career, so say hello to your new "clean" podium headed by Tour champion Pascal Herve, domestique for KOM jersey winner Richard Virenque:

1. Pascal Herve (finished 12th @23:13)
2. Roberto Conti (16th @ 34:18)
3. Kurt Van De Wouwer (17th @ 34:23)


Do these people really deserve to win? Of course not. The racing would have gone WAY different if Jean Cyril Robin or Geert Verheyen knew they only had to overtake Kurt Van De Wouwer for a podium spot that year. This whole thing is a huge farce.

Really, the UCI needs to put an end to this nonsense, and either nullify the race results since at least 1995 or just accept the people who actually won on the road during the doping era and keep trying to clean up the sport going forward. Or just allow it as part of the sport if you don't think you can catch everyone. It would be like baseball going back and erasing all the HR's hit during the "doping" era. Just move forward and focus on cleaning up the sport or allow certain substances to be used.

I'm sorry to say this but you are about to be roasted. Most likely you will be labeled an intern and troll. :D
 
Jun 28, 2009
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why should Lance get to keep his jerseys when others have not? because he had the audacity to cheat seven times?

same argument goes for them all...

strip LA like they have with others. that, or reinstate the yellow jerseys to those who have had to give them up if they allow LA to keep his.
Riis got to keep his.
 
Its still more democratic when a series of 5 riders win 7 tours
The wins are distributed more evenly among the teams

Doping infractions are not all the same
Some are more severe while others are less severe
Which means that some will receive greater punishments

Armstrong has been proven to commit more serious offences so he gets what he deserves, fair and square
 
Big Daddy said:
Lots of the top comp cheated, but not EVERYONE did as the Armstronger will have everybody believe.

Yes, even the 10 people Wonderboy claimed he'd get to say ".Lemond doped too", which NEVER HAPPENED.


I always get a kick out of the "Lemond doped too" crowd......almost as bad as the "well everyone else was doping too" crowd, really? you have FACTUAL proof that EVERY SINGLE RIDER on tour during Wonderboys run was doping? NOT!!!
 
FellOff said:
The English journalist who dumped David Walsh by the side of the road appears to be John Wilcockson: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lance-Making-Worlds-Greatest-Champion/dp/0306818744. Some of those reviews might need updating.

Wilcockson was STILL trying to sell the myth at Peloton Magazine sometime around the last week of August, 2012: He and the magazine that pays him blissfully ignores Wonderboy was doped since he started as a junior with Carmichael in the following haigiography.

http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Wilcockson/content/21/1799/Wilcockson-The-Armstrong-Case

He's as shameless as Phil and Paul and has more or less done well by promoting the myth. Classy.