GP Quebec (8-9-2017) and GP Montreal (10-9-2017) WT

[Jagartrott]

The only time I remember Van Avermaet won by sucking Sagan's wheel was a Tirreno stage last year. Probably he was in bad shape back then.

In all other cases, he won in style.

Sagan on the other hand is primarily a sprinter, which means a wheelsucker by definition. The Quebec win is just an extra example of it. I know it's not convenient to say it on these boards but it nonetheless is true. Don't blame me, blame reality.

Not this again please.
Neither Sagan nor Van Avermaet is a wheelsucker. Otherwise everybody is.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

"A big group went, and they had a good advantage on the last lap, and it was hard to catch them because they were strong guys. We tried, but in the end, I didn't have anyone in the group with me, and we lost a few more seconds, and then you know you're just sprinting for a top ten place."

"It was a different approach to last year. We went away with a good group of guys, but this time we had no one in front. I won the sprint from the bunch behind, and I had a really good feeling today, probably my best in Montreal, but I didn't get the win. I am a bit disappointed as I was probably one of the strongest guys in the race today and you expect to win."

I was one of the strongest in the race today, hence why I didn't bother pulling. This is the same guy who is so damn desperate about winning the meaningless WorldTour ranking. He is probably having nightmares about Dumoulin, who couldn't and doesn't give a damn about something so meaningless and irrelevant. :lol:

I'm glad Sagan has reached the point that if he is not able to win, he'll be deciding who is or who isn't going to win.

Well, I it's not meaningless to him, that tells you something. And Dumoulin doesn't giving a damn you know how? Not that he has spectacular palmares Way bigger riders than him cared about that "meaningless ranking"

 

[hrotha]

It does indeed tell you something, but not something I like.

 

[Blanco]

The only time I remember Van Avermaet won by sucking Sagan's wheel was a Tirreno stage last year. Probably he was in bad shape back then.

In all other cases, he won in style.

Sagan on the other hand is primarily a sprinter, which means a wheelsucker by definition. The Quebec win is just an extra example of it. I know it's not convenient to say it on these boards but it nonetheless is true. Don't blame me, blame reality.

Well you kind of lost touch with reality right there...

 

[jaylew]

The only time I remember Van Avermaet won by sucking Sagan's wheel was a Tirreno stage last year. Probably he was in bad shape back then.

In all other cases, he won in style.

Sagan on the other hand is primarily a sprinter, which means a wheelsucker by definition. The Quebec win is just an extra example of it. I know it's not convenient to say it on these boards but it nonetheless is true. Don't blame me, blame reality.

These kind of posts is why it's hard to take any of your posts seriously. I prefer GVA as well but you don't have to be a Sagan fan to realize that's just ridiculous. Frankly, I hardly think any rider should be called a wheelsucker, but calling Sagan one makes you look like either someone who knows very little about the sport, or like someone who is petty to the point of being a caricature.

 

[tobydawq]

The only time I remember Van Avermaet won by sucking Sagan's wheel was a Tirreno stage last year. Probably he was in bad shape back then.

In all other cases, he won in style.

Sagan on the other hand is primarily a sprinter, which means a wheelsucker by definition. The Quebec win is just an extra example of it. I know it's not convenient to say it on these boards but it nonetheless is true. Don't blame me, blame reality.

These kind of posts is why it's hard to take any of your posts seriously. I prefer GVA as well but you don't have to be a Sagan fan to realize that's just ridiculous. Frankly, I hardly think any rider should be called a wheelsucker, but calling Sagan one makes you look like either someone who knows very little about the sport, or like someone who is petty to the point of being a caricature.

Or "a kid. A baby actually."

 

[Anderis]

Re:

It does indeed tell you something, but not something I like.

Yeah, and that thing is the fact that not everybody sees the world the same way as you.

 

[Echoes]

This is the moment Greg Van Avermaet took his responsabilities:

So it can't be said that he sucked wheels. Pictures don't lie.

The problem is that Sagan is so iconised here that nothing can be said against him. We should all prosternate before his greatness. He won Quebec after sitting the peloton all race long. It's not my fault. Had Van Avermaet won, I'd have said the same. Greg also won bunch sprints in the past. He acted like a crybaby. Would you dispute it? Am I to blame? Anybody else had made this classless move, he would have been ridiculed on these boards. But don't burn an idol! Many Sagantards ridiculed Oliver Naesen here after the latter understandably behaved classlessly at last year's Eurométropole Tour, when Groenewegen almost sent him straight to the hospital. Point is, Naesen had reason to be angry. Sagan had none and his being classless off race is nothing new. I still remember his bunny capping Skujins at the Tour of California a few years back. That's the moment I really realised that guy had a grain. How was he then? Even at age 8 I would realise this is a stupid thing to do.


Edit: oh and the World Tour defence is an Allan Peiper idea. Yes Greg went to San Sebastian, to Plouay and to all these races for World Tour points but he went to Canada for the win. Himself realises that he would mostly be remembered for his victories in Paris-Roubaix and such than for his #1 rank. It probably just matter for BMC, more than for himself.

 

[tobydawq]

This is the moment Greg Van Avermaet took his responsabilities:

So it can't be said that he sucked wheels. Pictures don't lie.

The problem is that Sagan is so iconised here that nothing can be said against him. We should all prosternate before his greatness. He won Quebec after sitting the peloton all race long. It's not my fault. Had Van Avermaet won, I'd have said the same. Greg also won bunch sprints in the past. He acted like a crybaby. Would you dispute it? Am I to blame? Anybody else had made this classless move, he would have been ridiculed on these boards. But don't burn an idol! Many Sagantards ridiculed Oliver Naesen here after the latter understandably behaved classlessly at last year's Eurométropole Tour, when Groenewegen almost sent him straight to the hospital. Point is, Naesen had reason to be angry. Sagan had none and his being classless off race is nothing new. I still remember his bunny capping Skujins at the Tour of California a few years back. That's the moment I really realised that guy had a grain. How was he then? Even at age 8 I would realise this is a stupid thing to do.


Edit: oh and the World Tour defence is an Allan Peiper idea. Yes Greg went to San Sebastian, to Plouay and to all these races for World Tour points but he went to Canada for the win. Himself realises that he would mostly be remembered for his victories in Paris-Roubaix and such than for his #1 rank. It probably just matter for BMC, more than for himself.

It was a counter-attack, not a "taking of responsibilities".

 

[Alexandre B.]

Echoes captured the very five seconds when Van Avermaet took the wind.

 

[DonEsteban]

Heh, just before that photo, Sagan did a strong pull/atack, flicked his elbow, GVA did not bite, but a moment later attacked. But after 150m upon seeing Sagan on his wheel, he immediately started freewheeling ... Sagan took to the front again, did another strong pull, flicked his elbow again @4.6 to go... GVA and all the others just looked at him ... and that was the moment when the race was lost/won.

You could not ask more from Sagan, he is not superhuman ... GVA had the legs, but not balls to risk losing to Sagan again ...

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Heh, just before that photo, Sagan did a strong pull/atack, flicked his elbow, GVA did not bite, but a moment later attacked. But after 150m upon seeing Sagan on his wheel, he immediately started freewheeling ... Sagan took to the front again, did another strong pull, flicked his elbow again @4.6 to go... GVA and all the others just looked at him ... and that was the moment when the race was lost/won.

You could not ask more from Sagan, he is not superhuman ... GVA had the legs, but not balls to risk losing to Sagan again ...

Exactly. It's impressive how juvenile, blind hatred can make the Echoes character argue like he does, as everybody can see that he has no case whatsoever.

That aside, it was a little strange that GvA did not pull. That's not really like him, and I don't think he feels inferior to Sagan, so it didn't really make any sense - not even from the WT win perspective. Perhaps it was some sort of elaborate mindgames relating to the Worlds.

 

[Netserk]

This is the moment Greg Van Avermaet took his responsabilities:

So it can't be said that he sucked wheels. Pictures don't lie.

Gotcha.

I take it Gerrans also didn't wheelsuck in MSR '12 nor the WC '14?

 

[Echoes]

Ah counter-attacking is not taking one's responsabilities. Okay I see.
Wheelsucking probably is.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Counter-attacking after just following the whole time after a strong pull and attack is called cowardice

 

[Echoes]

The whole time was just 100m. Counter-attacking is part of the game. Any rider is free to do it if he wants to.

 

[yaco]

The biggest disappointment is that there were two or three riding strongly in the Sagan and GVA group, who could have attacked the group, and bridged over to the breakaway, while Sagan and GVA were bickering.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The whole time was just 100m. Counter-attacking is part of the game. Any rider is free to do it if he wants to.

He could have worked with Sagan when they had a gap, rode to the front group, and sprint for the win.

Instead, he was too afraid to take Sagan to the frount group in fear of losing the sprint. That to me is lack of guts, for a guy with the sprint of GVA, who has proven to beat Sagan on multiple occassions in such a sprint. Why didn't he dare to do it now?
Especially when after the race he says he had his best "montreal legs" ever

 

[tobydawq]

The whole time was just 100m. Counter-attacking is part of the game. Any rider is free to do it if he wants to.

He could have worked with Sagan when they had a gap, rode to the front group, and sprint for the win.

Instead, he was too afraid to take Sagan to the frount group in fear of losing the sprint. That to me is lack of guts, for a guy with the sprint of GVA, who has proven to beat Sagan on multiple occassions in such a sprint. Why didn't he dare to do it now?
Especially when after the race he says he had his best "montreal legs" ever

Maybe that was a lie told in order to maintain the top of the Belgian hierarchy for the Worlds? He did win the sprint for seventh, though, so that's probably not the case. It's strange.

 

[Echoes]

In itself, counter-attacking there was very risky, so either way fear of losing was there. You may argue that he made a tactical mistake but not that he sucked wheels.

 

[tobydawq]

In itself, counter-attacking there was very risky, so either way fear of losing was there. You may argue that he made a tactical mistake but not that he sucked wheels.

You may also argue then, that in a sprint, you attack after having followed wheels, hence you're not wheelsucking. Or is the distance to the finish solely determining of when such a move is cowardly or heroic?

 

[DonEsteban]

There is obviously no love lost between those two ... they will cancel each other in the Worlds ... unless Australians/Norge pull hard enough to ensure sprint ... then Sagan can pull a miracle again.... but that is unlikely

 

[Netserk]

In itself, counter-attacking there was very risky, so either way fear of losing was there. You may argue that he made a tactical mistake but not that he sucked wheels.

Did Gerrans wheelsuck Cancellara in MSR '12?

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

There is obviously no love lost between those two ... they will cancel each other in the Worlds ... unless Australians/Norge pull hard enough to ensure sprint ... then Sagan can pull a miracle again.... but that is unlikely

The Italians might also be interested in a sprint, considering Trentin's Vuelta.

I agree that Sagan's primary hope is to win a reduced bunch sprint - or ride solo, but that is vitually going to be impossible. Maybe an MSR scenario will not be out of the question either - Kwiat should definitely want to work with him considering his track record in their duels over the years.

But that Belgian squad is going to be a serious hindrance for him.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

There is obviously no love lost between those two ... they will cancel each other in the Worlds ...

Entirely possible. Difference being one has a stupid strong team and the other...not so much. In any case, I expect the two of them (and possibly Bling) to be glued to each other for most of the race.