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Graham Watson is just one more LA's blabber?!

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Mar 18, 2009
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BOW, if it's any consolation, had he not explicitly stated about Astana needing an invitation I'd have bought your interpretation ;)

I did find it interesting that he insinuates AC may be looking for another team - since the only way Astana loses their invite is for an 'ethical' (i.e. doping) violation...
 
May 8, 2009
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python said:
sorry but i think you are parsing. yes, im saying this to your face.

why you didn't analyze truthfulness of attacks on contadors characte ?
why did you not refute his false statements about contador lacking 'right entourage' ?
why did watson not provide a single known instance of contador demanding) appearance fees (unlike armstrong) and why you did not analyze this.

you focused on unsubstantiated rumours for which there is not a single other source.

sorry, it's you who parsed a real garbage and watson was clearly repeating talking points from various armstrong interviews and tweets.

Wow Python, relax. Man take a deep breath. Your saying it to my face? Really? You want to meet out back to fight? Wow.

Do you think it is possible that Watson can think on his own and that he isn't just repeating talking points he has been given by the Armstrong overlords? Do you think it is possible that Watson who is at most big races in Europe has a pretty good idea of what is going on? Do you think it is possible that there are rumors that have not been reported by the cycling media? Do you think it is possible that Contador is getting appearance fees for some races?

How do you get so worked up about some off the cuff comment from a photographer?

I am sure Contador couldn't give a rat's a55 about what Graham Watson says.
 
Sprocketboy said:
It is not surprising that Graham Watson (whom I think is an excellent photographer, perhaps not so much a commentator) is keen on LA. He has mentioned that when the Uniballer retired, his photo sales fell off pretty dramatically. I supposed that Watson sells most of his pictures to the English-speaking world and most of those shots are not of Fabian Cancellara. It's the same mind-set as Cycle Sport, where the pecking order is: a) British riders; b) Other native English speakers; c) Foreigners who ride with an English-speaking team or in support of an English-speaking rider; and d) Bloody Foreigners who somehow manage to win races. And be sure to put LA on every single cover, even though the editors Love to Hate Him.

Thats is what really grates with me. The duplicity, it is clear that the editors/reporters of Cycle Sport feel the same was as a lot of posters here but pander to Lance to attract the fair weather fans to increase sales, I have believed this since Lance un-retired and it doesnt stop at Cycle Sport. Lance is universally admired by the cycling community because he is a cash-cow, nothing else.

If you want to know what Cycle Sport really thinks of Armstrong, read the Broomwagon sections, it is supposed to be satirical but I gurantee thats what they really think on everything. Obviously, they have to be PC to sell the magazine.
 
JayZee said:
Wow Python, relax. Man take a deep breath. Your saying it to my face? Really? You want to meet out back to fight? Wow.

Do you think it is possible that Watson can think on his own and that he isn't just repeating talking points he has been given by the Armstrong overlords? Do you think it is possible that Watson who is at most big races in Europe has a pretty good idea of what is going on? Do you think it is possible that there are rumors that have not been reported by the cycling media? Do you think it is possible that Contador is getting appearance fees for some races?

How do you get so worked up about some off the cuff comment from a photographer?

I am sure Contador couldn't give a rat's a55 about what Graham Watson says.


Of course not, I actually think Contador is going to Criterium International to ease the pressure. Lets be honest, he was won 2 stage races already and if he goes to Catalunya/Basque Country, will be expected to win again even though they are both tough races. Imagine a Tour contender coming to the Tour with 4 short Tour victories under his belt. Every time Contador shows up, he will be expected to win so changint his schedule takes some of that pressure away. I personally would be interestef to see what he can do in the Ardennes.

As for Watson, I am almost sure he was the official photographer for Astana last year after Lance returned, he hardly counts as a neutral voice.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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JayZee said:
Wow Python, relax. Man take a deep breath. Your saying it to my face? Really? You want to meet out back to fight? Wow.

Do you think it is possible that Watson can think on his own and that he isn't just repeating talking points he has been given by the Armstrong overlords? Do you think it is possible that Watson who is at most big races in Europe has a pretty good idea of what is going on? Do you think it is possible that there are rumors that have not been reported by the cycling media? Do you think it is possible that Contador is getting appearance fees for some races?

How do you get so worked up about some off the cuff comment from a photographer?

I am sure Contador couldn't give a rat's a55 about what Graham Watson says.
i am traquillo jayzee.

you accused some posters of parsing watsons words and i just turned it around with real examples of how you selectively parsed watsons words to defend his garbage. you did not even bother to mention an outright lie that astana needs an invitation as biachigirl conclusively proved. to your face as in talking to your face not behind your back.

you keep asking rhetorical questions whilst it it rather obvious that everything watson accused contador of was in armstrongs interviews and twits. verbatim. attacks on his character, attacks on his circle/entourage, attacks on his team....

whatever watson knows from his proximity to the sport he misused in those few words.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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powderpuff said:
I know for a fact Graham gives ALL riders free use of any photos he takes of them, so I don't think money is an issue. He has always said he likes Lance and doesn't hide the fact.

I agree with L'arriviste

he might give the riders photos, but he has to make a living and who's photo has the highest worth???? i'm tired of the sycophancy surrounding armstrong and his misguided, mistimed and selfish return. bad move, mr watson :mad:
 

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pmcg76 said:
Of course not, I actually think Contador is going to Criterium International to ease the pressure. Lets be honest, he was won 2 stage races already and if he goes to Catalunya/Basque Country, will be expected to win again even though they are both tough races. Imagine a Tour contender coming to the Tour with 4 short Tour victories under his belt. Every time Contador shows up, he will be expected to win so changint his schedule takes some of that pressure away. I personally would be interestef to see what he can do in the Ardennes.

As for Watson, I am almost sure he was the official photographer for Astana last year after Lance returned, he hardly counts as a neutral voice.

Yes - GW was offical photographer for Astana:The Astana Cycling Team is pleased to announce that veteran cycling photographer Graham Watson will serve as official team photographer throughout the upcoming season.

Graham also writes ablog on the Team Radio Shack website.
Graham is part of the LA 'entourage'.

I have been a bit reluctant to get in to this debate - but ultimatley what GW stated was incorrect - and by announcing it on Twitter subjects his comments to public scrutiny - he should have been more cautious with his views.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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Yes he is

KazakhNeRider said:
Honestly - I didn't expect that kind of statement from Graham Watson at all!!!

in his twitter - "@trek60 ..no, I don't think Alberto has the ruthlessness in him to try that, nor the right entourage to guide him. His motivation might be a lack of start money in Catalunya, and a wish to embed him and Astana with ASO prior to the Tour; Astana needs an invite as well. There are already rumours that salaries are unpaid, that Contador might need to play up to ASO to get into the Tour...on another team."

WTF?!! so many words and there is not a word of truth in it!

Did Watson "forget" that Armstrong switched from Catalunya to Criterium International because he didn't want to face Contador in that race. -- Will Lance now switch back? :rolleyes:
 
Bluebeard said:
Why do I let myself do this. Well, there goes.

Firstly - who has read the question that was asked of Watson? Hands up. You, boy at the back, oh, you're just scratching your head. Because the question asks "Do you think Alberto is trying to intimidate Lance early?". Now read the answer again.

Second question. Is a professional journalist entitled to a personal opinion? Perhaps yes, I think. If it does not impact on their work it should surely be allowed. And if it is likely to do, then declare it, so that people are fully in possession of the facts for the matter. For the record, Watson has regularly mentioned that he is an admirer of Armstrong. And Sastre, and Contador and many others.

Thirdly, was this posted on his professional twitter site? Again, no, it was on a site that he uses personally. Granted he has probably a lot of cross over, but nonetheless, the distinction is drawn.

Fourthly, is he paid to be a balanced, unbiased, fair and unlobbyable journalist. NO. He is a freelancer who has come good, and his responsibility is to sell photos to earn his crust and house his family if he has one. Armstrong photos will unfortunately make him much more money than Hushovd photos (and the mighty Thor is a looker;)), so he will more likely take photos of him.

As regards rumours, I heard a rumour that some people who are ridiculously anti-Lance are starting to sound as hollow as some who are fanboys. But of course, it may be just a rumour...

the real question is:
Was he on crack & paid by LA when his opinion was posted?
 
bianchigirl said:
BOW, if it's any consolation, had he not explicitly stated about Astana needing an invitation I'd have bought your interpretation ;)

I did find it interesting that he insinuates AC may be looking for another team - since the only way Astana loses their invite is for an 'ethical' (i.e. doping) violation...

This clears up the invitation issue: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/446794/tour-de-france-2010-wildcard-watch.html

Watson is a big fat liar. Well he is big and fat.. and a liar also.

page1.jpg


You can see some self made muck on his shirt have to taking photos of Lance.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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wow, what a big reaction to some pretty dull comments. Not sure why people think there is anything Machiavellian behind his response to the question. It seemed pretty off the cuff and unrehearsed to me.

Sports are always full of comments and rumours such as these. Who cares?

Take a look at Formula 1. In 2008 the journos were all saying that Alonso had agreed to join Ferrari in 2010 and thats why he only took a 1 year deal at Renault. Every single week, people had something to say on the issue and what do you know? It turned out to be almost exactly correct.

If LA or Hog said it then yes I would believe that its all mind games but I have a very hard time believing that GW has anything invested at all in making Contador look bad or being part of some LA based conspiracy. I mean, what has he got to gain? He gets his photos of Lance during races most of the time - he doesnt actually NEED special access etc...

Sherwin and Phil needed to be nice to LA on screen to help them get into the US market. Why do people think that GW has remotely the same motivation? His photos will go in the mags anyway because as we know - he takes a lot of Lance.

Besides, I took it to mean that GW thinks that Contador is in such a strong position he doesn't need to be using underhanded methods the way that Lance done. In other words that Lance does it because he knows he isnt as strong a rider
 
Feb 14, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
As for Watson, I am almost sure he was the official photographer for Astana last year after Lance returned, he hardly counts as a neutral voice.

Yes, and I couldn't believe some of the garbage interpretations and analysis he wrote on his blog that lived on the Astana website. But then, he watched the races backwards...
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Gee333 said:
...He mentions that "There are already rumors..." He's not insinuating that Astana is broke. He's just passing on what he heard. ...

Not necessarily just passing on. He may be originating the rumors, in which case he is technically correct to say there are already rumors even if that tweet was the first anyone heard of them.

Starting a rumor is just as much fun as passing one on, they say...
 
Jul 26, 2009
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i actually had been losing my affinity for graham for some time, but he capped it of for me after last years tour team TT, .............he said , and this is from memory, ' how lance had been dragging the team around the course on his shoulders and in his opinion Berto was just barely hanging on , and how bad Berto looked when lance was on the front pulling.........i do remember thinking did we just watch the same TTT, i even brought it up in conversation at the time it bothered me that much......:(
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Martin318is said:
wow, what a big reaction to some pretty dull comments.

A cycling insider like Watson says that he has heard that the dominate Tour rider of his generation might switch teams prior to the Tour because he is not getting paid.....how is that a "Dull Comment"?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Race Radio said:
A cycling insider like Watson says that he has heard that the dominate Tour rider of his generation might switch teams prior to the Tour because he is not getting paid.....how is that a "Dull Comment"?

oh I don't know, maybe because he didn't cite any actual basis for it other than rumours (which none of us have heard anywhere else) and to my knowledge he is the only person to suggest it. He's hardly part of the UCI or the Astana team, he's just a trumped up photographer.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Martin318is said:
oh I don't know, maybe because he didn't cite any actual basis for it other than rumours (which none of us have heard anywhere else) and to my knowledge he is the only person to suggest it. He's hardly part of the UCI or the Astana team, he's just a trumped up photographer.

You may not know much about him but the rest of the cycling world does.

He has covered over 30 TdF's and written 20 books on the sport. He is far from a "trumped up photographer" He lives in the sport. It is a big deal that when he writes something so controversial.
 

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Race Radio said:
You may not know much about him but the rest of the cycling world does.

He has covered over 30 TdF's and written 20 books on the sport. He is far from a "trumped up photographer" He lives in the sport. It is a big deal that when he writes something so controversial.

And heez allowed hiz opinion just like the rest of us, even if you think its krrrap.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Krap Police said:
And heez allowed hiz opinion just like the rest of us, even if you think its krrrap.

Where do I say that he should not be allowed an opinion?

In fact I say quite the opposite, that Graham has been in the sport a long time and is well connected so when he says something it has gravitas.....even if some may disagree with it or question his motivation.
 

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Race Radio said:
Where do I say that he should not be allowed an opinion?

In fact I say quite the opposite, that Graham has been in the sport a long time and is well connected so when he says something it has gravitas.....even if some may disagree with it or question his motivation.

Think of what I said as agreeing wit U and adding to it, insted of accuzing U
 
Feb 14, 2010
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I just took a closer look at Trek60's twitter account. He's just a fanboy from Canada who's barely using twitter, and I'm guessing is a complete stranger to Watson. And the response was way more information than the question required. So this wasn't a conversation between two Good Ole Boys, but what Watson said to a stranger who asked if Contador was trying to intimidate Lance early. I wonder how many people he bumps into at races and things get the same type of answer and figure it's some sort of inside info from a legend?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Race Radio said:
You may not know much about him but the rest of the cycling world does.

He has covered over 30 TdF's and written 20 books on the sport. He is far from a "trumped up photographer" He lives in the sport. It is a big deal that when he writes something so controversial.

I know exactly who he is mate.

Might I suggest that you lay off the attempts to strenghten your points by attacking the intelligence/knowledge-base of those that write something that is reasonably worded yet disagrees with your views?

I stand by what I wrote - he isn't actually part of the UCI and not managing Astana, nor their sponsor. I don't care how many races he has been to or how many cyclists houses he is welcome in - I have no more reason to believe that he actually knows the current financial position of the Astana team than Fausto Coppi does (and yes I am aware that he is unforunately deceased).

To remove the obvious attempt at humour from that last sentence, I could equally say that I have no more reason to take GWs comment about Astana seriously than I would if any one of the following said it: Ligget, Sherwin, LA, Hog, Prudhomme (sp) Legay, Bjarne, Wigans, Greg Lemond, or Bernard Hinault.

If he Twits something like this in isolation, I am sorry but I for one see it as it is, a simple spreading of a rumour with little or no cause to take it seriously.

To extend my earlier analogy - if Martin Brundle said on TV that Lewis Hamilton was going to retire at the end of the year, I would say "yeah right, lets see what actually happens"
 
Martin318is said:
I know exactly who he is mate.

Might I suggest that you lay off the attempts to strenghten your points by attacking the intelligence/knowledge-base of those that write something that is reasonably worded yet disagrees with your views?

I stand by what I wrote - he isn't actually part of the UCI and not managing Astana, nor their sponsor. I don't care how many races he has been to or how many cyclists houses he is welcome in - I have no more reason to believe that he actually knows the current financial position of the Astana team than Fausto Coppi does (and yes I am aware that he is unforunately deceased).

To remove the obvious attempt at humour from that last sentence, I could equally say that I have no more reason to take GWs comment about Astana seriously than I would if any one of the following said it: Ligget, Sherwin, LA, Hog, Prudhomme (sp) Legay, Bjarne, Wigans, Greg Lemond, or Bernard Hinault.

If he Twits something like this in isolation, I am sorry but I for one see it as it is, a simple spreading of a rumour with little or no cause to take it seriously.

To extend my earlier analogy - if Martin Brundle said on TV that Lewis Hamilton was going to retire at the end of the year, I would say "yeah right, lets see what actually happens"

So you admit that he is starting rumors himself and think that's not a big deal? You're simply wrong on that. Watson is a big man in cycling and for him to start, or even spread, a rumor of this magnitude is most certainly big news.

It has been reported nowhere in the media that Contador may have to ride the Tour for another team. This is a very big story and even bigger is that it's been broken by Watson.