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Graham Watson is just one more LA's blabber?!

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Feb 14, 2010
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BikeCentric said:
Berzin I agree with your analysis regarding modern journalism with one caveat: Watson is not a journalist, he's a photographer.
I guess it was Bruyneel/Astana that got him started writing about cycling as well as supplying their official photos, and he's moved on to writing for Radio Shack. I don't know how much it's spread beyond that, but he is now paid to write about pro cycling.
 
Berzin said:
This is true, but as a photographer his pictures go hand in hand with whatever journalistic piece is written that uses his work. So in that regard he is part of the same craft.

At the very least he should practice a certain amount of discretion with his statements or make it plain that his opinions are biased because of who employs him. :eek::eek::eek:

Actually I see your point there, plus I also just realized that Watson writes those little descriptive blurbs describing his photos so in that sense he can probably be labeled as some kind of cycling pseudo photographer/journalist combination.
 
pmcg76 said:
"It was obvious that Armstrong is far stronger than in 2009, that his body is leaner and lighter, and that his mindsight is as tough as its ever been-I really wouldnt bet against him in July, though my bias is well known by now"
Cycle Sport, April 2010 on the TDU

There you have it, Watson is an official fanboy.

Now THERE is some investigative journalism and you don't even get paid for it! Well done!
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Berzin - I can't find it back just now, but last night Cyclismag had a snippe about a guy from French television who had been given the basic instructions that Armstrong was to be presented as a god, and Contador as nothing. The guy said it was tough, with Armstrong arriving by private jet and such, and was grateful to Contador for having the allergy problems and making his job easier.

I just looked through their stuff for the last couple of days, and it seems to be missing. :mad:
 
BikeCentric said:
Now THERE is some investigative journalism and you don't even get paid for it! Well done!

Not really that difficult, Watson has a photo section in Cycle Sport each month in which he comments on his photos. Since Lance returned, he has pretty much featured every month including most of the months he wasnt racing which is most of the time.

Its always the same, how fantastic Lance is blah, blah, blah. He was delighted when he was made official Astana photo last year. Watson is as big a fanboy as Liggett/Sherwan.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Aero Bars, Lance invented them - maybe that is why he is carrying so much extra weight.
]

Lance did not invent aero bars, wind tunnels, oxygen tents, or the internet.

He was THE innovator and early adopter of their use in the peloton however.

It is no wonder Lance counts among his many many fans greats like Eddy...

photo by Graham Watson....
watson-1-1.jpg
 
Aug 19, 2009
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Polish said:
Lance did not invent aero bars, wind tunnels, oxygen tents, or the internet.

He was THE innovator and early adopter of their use in the peloton however.

It is no wonder Lance counts among his many many fans greats like Eddy...

photo by Graham Watson....
watson-1-1.jpg

Nice bars. Didn't Lemond use that model in 1990? Hey, isn't that pic from 1990?
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Lance did not invent aero bars, wind tunnels, oxygen tents, or the internet.

He was THE innovator and early adopter of their use in the peloton however.
Sorry but I'm very skeptical of that. Can you back it up with facts? When did other riders start with these things? What made Armstrong *the* innovator? Has this ever been reliably documented?
 
Mar 29, 2010
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theswordsman said:
Berzin - I can't find it back just now, but last night Cyclismag had a snippe about a guy from French television who had been given the basic instructions that Armstrong was to be presented as a god, and Contador as nothing. The guy said it was tough, with Armstrong arriving by private jet and such, and was grateful to Contador for having the allergy problems and making his job easier.

I just looked through their stuff for the last couple of days, and it seems to be missing. :mad:

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5703

On a donc fait un reportage pour Stade 2. Les consignes étaient claires : Lance Armstrong est le plus beau, Alberto Contador est un gros nul. Ça n'a pas été facile, je vous l'avoue. Faire passer pour sympa un mec qui arrive en jet privé, ne nous parle qu'en anglais et nous demande de quel côté de la route on roule en France, c'est pas évident. Pour Contador, il a fallu se creuser aussi mais on a réussi à dire qu'il était venu pour donner la leçon à Armstrong, qu'il avait refusé qu'on le suive et qu'il avait snobé Armstrong alors qu'ils ne se sont même pas croisés.

Avec sa défaillance, Contador nous a bien aidés et on a réussi à minimiser la contre-performance d'Armstrong.

google-translated english:

So we did a story for stage 2. The instructions were clear: Lance Armstrong is the most beautiful, Alberto Contador is a big zero. It was not easy, I confess. Getting nice for a guy who arrived by private jet, let us speak in English and asked us which side of the road you drive in France is not clear. For Contador, we had to dig too but we managed to say he had come to give the lesson to Armstrong, he refused to follow him and that he had snubbed Armstrong when they do are not even crossed.

With its failure, Contador has helped us and we managed to minimize the cons-performance of Armstrong.
 
Mambo95 said:
As it happens, that's exactly where LeMond got the idea from. Not Armstrong specifically, but triathletes of the time generally.

Here's a film featuring Armstrong using them in 1987:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorLQHQ3pMc&feature=related

Well, it was actually the 7-Eleven team who started using tri-bars in the peloton first at the 89 Tour de Trump I think. Yes, they took them from triathletes but LeMond got the idea from the 7-Eleven team. To credit Armstong with that innovation in cycling is really stretching credibility.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
Well, it was actually the 7-Eleven team who started using tri-bars in the peloton first at the 89 Tour de Trump I think. Yes, they took them from triathletes but LeMond got the idea from the 7-Eleven team. To credit Armstong with that innovation in cycling is really stretching credibility.

I'm not crediting Armstrong with anything, just that Polish's mocking "Lance was rocking Aero Bars years before they showed up in a Paris ITT" is actually true.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Wind Tunnel - All the Big Dogs use them right? Modern Wind Tunnels have been around since the 1930's. Who used them first? Fausto? Eddy?

Greg Lemond. In the windtunnel at Texas A&M January 1990

5wft5i.jpg


Your trolling is too obvious Polish
 

Polish

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Race Radio said:
Greg Lemond. In the windtunnel at Texas A&M January 1990
greg2-1.jpg

Your trolling is too obvious Polish

But the fact remains that Lance raced with Aero Bars years earlier than Greg.

And Lance also worked in the wind tunnel with John Cobb in the late 80's.

As a matter of fact, John would use Lance as a model.
(Lance was not quite as chubby as Greg).

http://www.roadcycling.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/3/319

"You have been working with Lance Armstrong for years now. How did your relationship with him begin?"

I was working with Greg LeMond in 1989 and a mutual friend asked if I?d mind having this young racer come over to meet Greg and see a wind tunnel. Lance had done a local triathlon here and had set the course record so I had seen him and at least new he could ride a bike some. I used Lance for a few years as a model in the tunnel when I would be testing because he lived nearby. He understood pretty quickly how important the wind tunnel was for speed and he would occasionally buy lunch.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Polish said:
But the fact remains that Lance raced with Aero Bars years earlier than Greg.

And Lance also worked in the wind tunnel with John Cobb in the late 80's.

As a matter of fact, John would use Lance as a model.
(Lance was not quite as chubby as Greg).

http://www.roadcycling.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/3/319

"You have been working with Lance Armstrong for years now. How did your relationship with him begin?"

I was working with Greg LeMond in 1989 and a mutual friend asked if I?d mind having this young racer come over to meet Greg and see a wind tunnel. Lance had done a local triathlon here and had set the course record so I had seen him and at least new he could ride a bike some. I used Lance for a few years as a model in the tunnel when I would be testing because he lived nearby. He understood pretty quickly how important the wind tunnel was for speed and he would occasionally buy lunch.

My apologies to you, then, for a post further up the page. I mistakenly thought you where being sarcastic and mocking, but you were being fairly serious and knew what you where talking about.
 
Polish said:
But the fact remains that Lance raced with Aero Bars years earlier than Greg.

And Lance also worked in the wind tunnel with John Cobb in the late 80's.

As a matter of fact, John would use Lance as a model.
(Lance was not quite as chubby as Greg).

http://www.roadcycling.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/3/319

"You have been working with Lance Armstrong for years now. How did your relationship with him begin?"

I was working with Greg LeMond in 1989 and a mutual friend asked if I'd mind having this young racer come over to meet Greg and see a wind tunnel. Lance had done a local triathlon here and had set the course record so I had seen him and at least knew he could ride a bike some. I used Lance for a few years as a model in the tunnel when I would be testing because he lived nearby. He understood pretty quickly how important the wind tunnel was for speed and he would occasionally buy lunch.

So, Greg is working away in the wind tunnel and a young kid, who's never even seen a wind tunnel is invited over to meet Greg and see the tunnel.

Greg = experienced wind tunnel tester

LA = Never even seen a wind tunnel

Got it. Greg followed Lance...

By the way, how does:
I used Lance for a few years as a model in the tunnel when I would be testing because he lived nearby.

Become:
As a matter of fact, John would use Lance as a model.
(Lance was not quite as chubby as Greg).
?

You mean this Greg?:

lemond.jpg


greg_lemond_by_graham_watson.jpg


And this Lance?:

_40418279_roadrace203_270.jpg


image18.jpg
 
Jul 14, 2009
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I don't understand why Lemond doesn't get extra credit for using Campy V brakes that weighed 2 pounds a caliper and those Scott handle bars that put you in some tuck/aero crash any second position with your hands behind your shoulders. And who could forget the early Giro covered in those super nylon helmet covers. I think that Campy group that Lemond is using in the wind tunnel was over 10 pounds. Lemond also wore Time shoes and pedals that added 5 pounds
 

Dr. Maserati

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Mambo95 said:
My apologies to you, then, for a post further up the page. I mistakenly thought you where being sarcastic and mocking, but you were being fairly serious and knew what you where talking about.

He was being sarcastic - it shows 'Polishes' ability to 'google' the name on the photograph RR posted and then be selective with the results.

Cobb has worked on cycling since 1984 and "his first famous client was Greg LeMond in 1989, followed later by Lance Armstrong."

But as I pointed out earlier, the first big name to use wind tunnels was Moser for his hour record in 1984.
 
Has anyone ever noticed how Watson shares with Sherwen this weird habit of always bringing up the subject of Armstrong by a bashfully circuitous route? Sherwen will always refer to him as "a certain rider by the name of . . .", and Watson will often introduce him through a phrase like "an American fellow, a certain seven-time Tour de France winner by the name of . . ." It's as though they can't name him more directly without giggling like schoolgirls.
 

Polish

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MacRoadie said:
So, Greg is working away in the wind tunnel and a young kid, who's never even seen a wind tunnel is invited over to meet Greg and see the tunnel.

Greg = experienced wind tunnel tester

LA = Never even seen a wind tunnel

Got it. Greg followed Lance...

Yes, Greg followed Lance in the use of aero Bars. Lance was using them in 1987.
They were both in Cobb's tri-geek wind tunnel in 1989.
You have to wonder how Greg found out about Cobb's Texan tri-geek setup....
some mutual friend of Lance and Greg....maybe it was Kenny:
kenny.jpg


macroadie said:
You mean this Greg?:
Graham Watson Pictures of Skinny Greg

And this Lance?:
Graham Watson Pictures of Chubby Lance

C'mon, You are not buying into the "Lance was chubby" before cancer Myth are you?

Geez, hasn't Race Radio posted enough pre-cancer skinny Lance pictures for you?
 
Mar 22, 2010
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yetanothergreenworld said:
Has anyone ever noticed how Watson shares with Sherwen this weird habit of always bringing up the subject of Armstrong by a bashfully circuitous route? Sherwen will always refer to him as "a certain rider by the name of . . .", and Watson will often introduce him through a phrase like "an American fellow, a certain seven-time Tour de France winner by the name of . . ." It's as though they can't name him more directly without giggling like schoolgirls.

So what's your point? That middle aged guys with premature ejaculation problems have to find oblique ways of mentioning their idol without soiling themselves?
 
Polish said:
C'mon, You are not buying into the "Lance was chubby" before cancer Myth are you?

Geez, hasn't Race Radio posted enough pre-cancer skinny Lance pictures for you?

Nope, not buying into any myths and no need to look at photographs posted by anyone.

Curiously, some of us were actually inolved in cycling in 1989, or even before and may have actually (I know, this is wild stuff) raced against one or the other of them, have good friends who were team mates with either of them, etc.
 
Polish said:
And Lance also worked in the wind tunnel with John Cobb in the late 80's.


"You have been working with Lance Armstrong for years now. How did your relationship with him begin?"

I was working with Greg LeMond in 1989 and a mutual friend asked if I?d mind having this young racer come over to meet Greg and see a wind tunnel.

Polish said:
They were both in Cobb's tri-geek wind tunnel in 1989.

Yeah well it sure sounds like Greg was there first according to your own words.
It is amazing to me that you can totally contradict yourself and make a complete ass of yourself one day and then come back and post again the next like nothing ever happened. Don't you ever have the slightest glimmer of self doubt?