Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

23km of TT is a travesty.

Normally I'm not a Froome fan at all, but hopefully Froome or somebody else with a good TT wins, so we at least get a worthy winner who would've also won on a real route.

I honestly thought that they'd give up on Quintana after this year, and do a more balanced 80's style route to give the likes of Dumoulin and Pinot a shout. Instead they've gift-wrapped another route with a bow on top for Quintana, although he'd prefer fewer flat stages. They have added some steeper finishes, which is important - it's one of the reasons the Vuelta is better at creating gaps (as well as the weaker teams). Riders, and especially domestiques, are in way too good shape these days. The steady 7% Alpine slogs can't hack it anymore, they're too easy to draft. But yeah the race is more boring with so little TT - there won't be the resulting gaps to force the pure climbers to go from further out.

The Quintana hype is silly, as the route doesn't suit him that much at all. He benefits from old school high mountain stages with long HC MTFs. Those kind of stages are completely absent, once again. He may take a minute on Izoard if he's on great form, but he'll easily lose that in the 23km TT two days later. The rest of the parcours favors Froome/Sky more than it does him.

Also, Bardet came second this year. ASO is more likely to design a route with the best French GC rider in mind, IMO.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

The Le Puy-en-Velay stage could have a killer finale with that climb. Very nice.

Peyra Taillade was the last climb in stage 2 of the 1997 Dauphine.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/jun97/lib97.html#2

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

Also, Bardet came second this year. ASO is more likely to design a route with the best French GC rider in mind, IMO.

That's a good point, I completely forgot about Bardet somehow.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

the only intrigue remaining is the length of TT and probably Foix stage.

23 km. I'm not even joking.

Absolutely farcical. So just 36km of ITT in total. I'm not sure why I'm surprised given that there was only 13km of ITT in 2015.

What's more farcical is the two TT's are both on Saturdays which makes for boring viewing - TT's in GT's should only be on weekdays - There is only one good weekend out of three for TV viewers in this TDF.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

The Le Puy-en-Velay stage could have a killer finale with that climb. Very nice.

Peyra Taillade was the last climb in stage 2 of the 1997 Dauphine.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/jun97/lib97.html#2

Considering the placement of this stage, a day before the 2nd rest day, I expect that Contador/Trek will try something here.

 

[Brullnux]

Pretty good route.

Most tour routes are pretty fantastic usually, but this year they've really gone out of their way to make something special. Apart from Stage 9 and the Galibier stage it's great. Fantastic. Amazing.

*cries*

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Pretty good route.

Most tour routes are pretty fantastic usually, but this year they've really gone out of their way to make something special. Apart from Stage 9 and the Galibier stage it's great. Fantastic. Amazing.

*cries*

You got me there for a minute

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Pretty good route.

Most tour routes are pretty fantastic usually, but this year they've really gone out of their way to make something special. Apart from Stage 9 and the Galibier stage it's great. Fantastic. Amazing.

*cries*

You got me there for a minute

http://spreeder.com/

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Pretty good route.

Most tour routes are pretty fantastic usually, but this year they've really gone out of their way to make something special. Apart from Stage 9 and the Galibier stage it's great. Fantastic. Amazing.

*cries*

You got me there for a minute

http://spreeder.com/

This is genuinely great

 

[Netserk]

Tbh, it's a joke I have stolen from the late Dr. Maserati (iirc).

 

[Red Rick]

 

[Walkman]

Can't say I am surprised. They were never going to put in a lot of TT. Bardet would not stand a chance. Also, they probably fear Froome will wreck the race if there are too many TT km.

 

[sir fly]

I suppose they've convinced Bardet that hundredth Giro isn't better option than the Tour.
And it would be rude from Quintana to refuse such a low count of itt kilometres.
That's this year's podium secured for the next season's edition.
Giro should have very wide field. The funny thing is - Tour route looks very good for the best Italian GC riders. A lot will depend on owner's priorities, I believe.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Tbh, it's a joke I have stolen from the late Dr. Maserati (iirc).

Where id Dr. Maserati? banned forever?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

23km of TT is a travesty.

Normally I'm not a Froome fan at all, but hopefully Froome or somebody else with a good TT wins, so we at least get a worthy winner who would've also won on a real route.

I honestly thought that they'd give up on Quintana after this year, and do a more balanced 80's style route to give the likes of Dumoulin and Pinot a shout. Instead they've gift-wrapped another route with a bow on top for Quintana, although he'd prefer fewer flat stages. They have added some steeper finishes, which is important - it's one of the reasons the Vuelta is better at creating gaps (as well as the weaker teams). Riders, and especially domestiques, are in way too good shape these days. The steady 7% Alpine slogs can't hack it anymore, they're too easy to draft. But yeah the race is more boring with so little TT - there won't be the resulting gaps to force the pure climbers to go from further out.

The Quintana hype is silly, as the route doesn't suit him that much at all. He benefits from old school high mountain stages with long HC MTFs. Those kind of stages are completely absent, once again. He may take a minute on Izoard if he's on great form, but he'll easily lose that in the 23km TT two days later. The rest of the parcours favors Froome/Sky more than it does him.

Also, Bardet came second this year. ASO is more likely to design a route with the best French GC rider in mind, IMO.

The old school long stages with multiple mountains seem to be becoming extinct. But Quintana can't say this is a bad route for him. If they are going to persevere with short mountain stages why not have one longer than usual ? They can adjust the cut off time for the non climbers if too many fall outside the time limit they are not ejected from the race anyway.

 

[jens_attacks]

they made a route for bardet but bardet wants to do the giro lol
let's see if ag2r will force him to do tdf.

 

[Robert5091]

" ASO is more likely to design a route with the best French GC rider in mind." - agree.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

they made a route for bardet but bardet wants to do the giro lol
let's see if ag2r will force him to do tdf.

Can't see it happening but it sounds like he wants that grand tour win after his second in the Tour and thinks the Giro is his best chance. Also sounds like he thinks Froome will win the Tour again which is a reasonable thought.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

they made a route for bardet but bardet wants to do the giro lol
let's see if ag2r will force him to do tdf.

Can't see it happening but it sounds like he wants that grand tour win after his second in the Tour and thinks the Giro is his best chance. Also sounds like he thinks Froome will win the Tour again which is a reasonable thought.

Luring Bardet and Pinot to the Tour had to be a big item on ASO's agenda. This route suits Romain more than Pinot, but PDBF plus a Jura stage, and also stage 9 are a Franc-Comtois' dream (stage 9 is not in Franche-Comte but it's the Jura mountains). Both may actually race the Giro ftw and come to the Tour with lesser ambitions. I hope so.

 

[staubsauger]

Bardet's statements (“Much tt miles. Not a climbers route) somehow sound ike he's looking out for ridiculous explanations for doing the Giro for general classification now already while he chases the polka dot jersey at the Tour.

Pinot might do the Tour only anyway. He's that goofy after all!

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Bardet's statements (“Much tt miles. Not a climbers route) somehow sound ike he's looking out for ridiculous explanations for doing the Giro for general classification now already while he chases the polka dot jersey at the Tour.

Pinot might do the Tour only anyway. He's that goofy after all!

Much TT miles ? Compared to what ? The Tour suits Bardet and Quintana better than most riders. Another one or two high mountain finishes instead of medium stages would have swung it even more in their favor but you have to be a good all rounder to win the Tour and it's been that way for a long time. The days of routes favouring natural climbers are long gone but they should not complain too much. Imagine if they had the TT miles from the 2012 Tour ! Both riders had their chances last year but were not good enough. Maybe Bardet is waiting for the year they have no TTs at all ! But the more Prudhomme makes the race an assortment of different type stages the more it plays into the hands of Froome. Next year the TT miles will be increased and again it will suit Froome unless it is top heavy with mountain stages and even then Quintana never has the big gaps in the mountains he needs to beat Froome. Bardet even less so because Froome is a better climber anyway. Only Vuelta type moves re Contador can upset Sky or unexpected tactics. Froome rarely has an off day and when he does he generally manages the time losses pretty well.

This route would actually suit Contador if he was in his best form and avoided crashes. He would take risks and be aggressive on stages that on paper don't look that tough but can make for tough racing. The sort of thing that Froome and Sky don't like on stages that are supposed to be easier. Because Sky work so hard on the mountain stages they don't count on working hard on the intermediate stages as well as they like to be in control and have something in reserve for the third week.

 

[yaco]

Pinot is a very decent TT'er ( when in form ) so for me this route, suits him better than Bardet - Pinot should lose less time to Froome compared to Bardet in the TT's and his climbing style is more suited to the Sky Train - Get Pinot and Bardet go head-to-head up a mountain and I'd back Pinot to win 9 times out of 10, though it seems to be different in a peleton - It would be exciting to see them both fight for the mountain's jersey - Actually my favorite for the mountain's jersey is Alaphalippe on the proviso, he's learnt more race craft and saves his energy wisely.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Pinot is a very decent TT'er ( when in form ) so for me this route, suits him better than Bardet - Pinot should lose less time to Froome compared to Bardet in the TT's and his climbing style is more suited to the Sky Train - Get Pinot and Bardet go head-to-head up a mountain and I'd back Pinot to win 9 times out of 10, though it seems to be different in a peleton - It would be exciting to see them both fight for the mountain's jersey - Actually my favorite for the mountain's jersey is Alaphalippe on the proviso, he's learnt more race craft and saves his energy wisely.

IMO the route suits bardet because of the 3 descent finishes which suits him and doesn't suit pinot at all.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

We have the Wildcards:

Cofidis
Direct Energie
Fortuneo-Vital Concept
Wanty-Groupe Gobert

As expected and absolutely fine for me.

 

[ingemann1996]

Does anyone know the targets of 2017 for Tony Gallopin? Perhaps aiming for GC in Le Tour? The route seems to suits him fine.