Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

the structure of mountain stage blocks gives the reason to assume that might me a TT friendly route this time. might be mistaken though

Or just that they don't wan't to massive backload it..

I like it. Which one of those stages potentially be hilly?

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

the structure of mountain stage blocks gives the reason to assume that might me a TT friendly route this time. might be mistaken though

Froome like.

 

[rghysens]

Re: Re:

the structure of mountain stage blocks gives the reason to assume that might me a TT friendly route this time. might be mistaken though

Or just that they don't wan't to massive backload it..

I like it. Which one of those stages potentially be hilly?

Verviers definitely, Esch-sur-Alzette and Vittel less so.

 

[Netserk]

So far, so good. It sounds promising, but I will try not to get my hopes up too high. I like Superbagnères and Luz-Ardiden. Given that Pyrenees will be last, they'll come from the east, so the stage to Superbagnères over Bales should be first, and then they could do an absolutely excellent short mountain stage from Bagneres to Luz-Ardiden over Peyresourde+Azet+Ancizan+Tourmalet (so this year's stage in reverse). Another hope is that like all times when they have Pyrenees last (also recently), stage 20 will be a long ITT.

 

[barmaher]

Yeah, I would hope there will either be a big ITT on the weekend after Bastille day, or on the final Saturday.

Maybe both?

 

[yaco]

Re:

Yeah, I would hope there will either be a big ITT on the weekend after Bastille day, or on the final Saturday.

Maybe both?[/quot

Never like a TT to be the last stage. IT'S by their nature are boring and should never be on weekends.

 

[staubsauger]

The last stage mainly is boring anyway. If it's a tt there's at least a tiny chance for some little entertainment like at the 2009 Giro. Even if there ain't no hope it's gonna equal the 1989 Tour finish.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I would hope there will either be a big ITT on the weekend after Bastille day, or on the final Saturday.

Maybe both?[/quot

Never like a TT to be the last stage. IT'S by their nature are boring and should never be on weekends.

I love time trials and don't find them remotely boring

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you have the Pyrenees last, the transport connections make it much tougher to run the mountains all the way to stage 20 than when the Alps are done last. The main option therefore is to have the mountain stages at the start of the final week then transition up towards Bordeaux with a less dangerous stage or two before the final TT, be it around that area like in 2010 and 2014 or after the transfer closer to Paris like 2012.

The best we can hope for to prevent the cursed ASO "penultimate weekend flat strage extraordinaire" route design is that they arrive close enough to the Pyrenees that they can do stage 13 to arrive close enough that stage 14 (which will be the penultimate Saturday) can be the Balès-Superbagnères stage and so another mountain stage can come on the Sunday. That way they can have the TT after the second rest day on either 16 or 17 depending on if they want a third Pyrenean stage, then they can transition northwards to allow us a medium mountain stage to the west of the Massif Central on the final Saturday, where something like Super-Besse would come in handy (especially if tackled from the side seen in 2008, like this), or something like the Super-Lioran stage this year as a finish; or they could go toward Clermont-Ferrand or so forth or so on. Remember, this is the final roll of the dice with only Paris to come.

14 - Superbagnères
15 - other Pyrenean monster stage (as described possibly?)
- rest day -
16 - easier Pyrenees stage (probably starting in Pau? Would suit an easier finish climb. Marie-Blanque - Aubisque - Cauterets or even Couraduque after this year's introduction in the Route du Sud?)
17 - transitional stage northward towards the Gironde
18 - CLM somewhere around Bordeaux or Saint-Émilion
19 - hilly stage towards somewhere like Brive-la-Gaillarde or Tulle (respect for Abdou!)
20 - intermediate stage to somewhere like Super-Besse or, transport-wise, perhaps better to be Clermont-Ferrand with Ceyssat-Moreno as last climbs or finish at Circuit de Charade
21 - Paris parade

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

If you have the Pyrenees last, the transport connections make it much tougher to run the mountains all the way to stage 20 than when the Alps are done last. The main option therefore is to have the mountain stages at the start of the final week then transition up towards Bordeaux with a less dangerous stage or two before the final TT, be it around that area like in 2010 and 2014 or after the transfer closer to Paris like 2012.

The best we can hope for to prevent the cursed ASO "penultimate weekend flat strage extraordinaire" route design is that they arrive close enough to the Pyrenees that they can do stage 13 to arrive close enough that stage 14 (which will be the penultimate Saturday) can be the Balès-Superbagnères stage and so another mountain stage can come on the Sunday. That way they can have the TT after the second rest day on either 16 or 17 depending on if they want a third Pyrenean stage, then they can transition northwards to allow us a medium mountain stage to the west of the Massif Central on the final Saturday, where something like Super-Besse would come in handy (especially if tackled from the side seen in 2008, like this), or something like the Super-Lioran stage this year as a finish; or they could go toward Clermont-Ferrand or so forth or so on. Remember, this is the final roll of the dice with only Paris to come.

14 - Superbagnères
15 - other Pyrenean monster stage (as described possibly?)
- rest day -
16 - easier Pyrenees stage (probably starting in Pau? Would suit an easier finish climb. Marie-Blanque - Aubisque - Cauterets or even Couraduque after this year's introduction in the Route du Sud?)
17 - transitional stage northward towards the Gironde
18 - CLM somewhere around Bordeaux or Saint-Émilion
19 - hilly stage towards somewhere like Brive-la-Gaillarde or Tulle (respect for Abdou!)
20 - intermediate stage to somewhere like Super-Besse or, transport-wise, perhaps better to be Clermont-Ferrand with Ceyssat-Moreno as last climbs or finish at Circuit de Charade
21 - Paris parade

Spoiler alert!!!

The final route will be worse

Edit: and now that you mentioned it, I really want a finish in couraduque. Combined with the aubisque that would be a superb last mountain stage.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

If you have the Pyrenees last, the transport connections make it much tougher to run the mountains all the way to stage 20 than when the Alps are done last. The main option therefore is to have the mountain stages at the start of the final week then transition up towards Bordeaux with a less dangerous stage or two before the final TT, be it around that area like in 2010 and 2014 or after the transfer closer to Paris like 2012.

The best we can hope for to prevent the cursed ASO "penultimate weekend flat strage extraordinaire" route design is that they arrive close enough to the Pyrenees that they can do stage 13 to arrive close enough that stage 14 (which will be the penultimate Saturday) can be the Balès-Superbagnères stage and so another mountain stage can come on the Sunday. That way they can have the TT after the second rest day on either 16 or 17 depending on if they want a third Pyrenean stage, then they can transition northwards to allow us a medium mountain stage to the west of the Massif Central on the final Saturday, where something like Super-Besse would come in handy (especially if tackled from the side seen in 2008, like this), or something like the Super-Lioran stage this year as a finish; or they could go toward Clermont-Ferrand or so forth or so on. Remember, this is the final roll of the dice with only Paris to come.

14 - Superbagnères
15 - other Pyrenean monster stage (as described possibly?)
- rest day -
16 - easier Pyrenees stage (probably starting in Pau? Would suit an easier finish climb. Marie-Blanque - Aubisque - Cauterets or even Couraduque after this year's introduction in the Route du Sud?)
17 - transitional stage northward towards the Gironde
18 - CLM somewhere around Bordeaux or Saint-Émilion
19 - hilly stage towards somewhere like Brive-la-Gaillarde or Tulle (respect for Abdou!)
20 - intermediate stage to somewhere like Super-Besse or, transport-wise, perhaps better to be Clermont-Ferrand with Ceyssat-Moreno as last climbs or finish at Circuit de Charade
21 - Paris parade

From 2008 onward, the Tours with the Pyrenees coming second have had the last mountain stage on Thursday, followed by a transition stage on Friday, an ITT on Saturday and the Paris show on Sunday.
It is a good balance IMO to keep the mountain stages as late as possible and not put an attack spoiler ITT immediately after (Actually in many cases the whole mountain stage design is an attack spoiler, but that's another discussion ofc.)
That being said I don't see why they would change it next year.

 

[Red Rick]

If you look at those rumours you start thinking they only have 30 climbs in France.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

From 2008 onward, the Tours with the Pyrenees coming second have had the last mountain stage on Thursday, followed by a transition stage on Friday, an ITT on Saturday and the Paris show on Sunday.
It is a good balance IMO to keep the mountain stages as late as possible and not put an attack spoiler ITT immediately after (Actually in many cases the whole mountain stage design is an attack spoiler, but that's another discussion ofc.)
That being said I don't see why they would change it next year.

The issue with that is that it generally means that they either heavily backload or end up with transitional flat stages on the penultimate weekend, which I was trying to find a way to avoid. I think they'll do what you say, as you point out it's what's happened each time the Tour has travelled around the country this way in recent years. However we can anticipate from the rumours that the Tour is going with the Alps before the Pyrenees next year, and we had people complaining about stage 20 ITTs, so I was trying to figure a way you could get GC-relevant stages to the very end without an ITT in a Tour that does the Pyrenees last without having a problem with the logistics of the connections to the very southwest of continental France.

 

[valentius borealis]

I know it wouldn't be "easier", but I wonder how an Aubisque/Spandelles/Hautacam combo would go.

 

[46&twoWheels]

1^ stage: Zugspitze?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I know it wouldn't be "easier", but I wonder how an Aubisque/Spandelles/Hautacam combo would go.

I fear the street of the Spandelles is too narrow for the tour.

 

[Montecampione]

From: http://alpesdusud.alpes1.com/news/locales/52401/alpes-du-sud-trois-etapes-du-tour-de-france-en-2017-dans-les-hautes-alpes


'29 Juillet 2016

SPORT / Une information confirmée par Christian Prudhomme, Directeur du Tour de France auprès de Gérard Fromm

-Alpes du Sud-

Trois étapes du tour de France en 2017. Une information confirmée par Christian Prudhomme, Directeur du Tour de France auprès de Gérard Fromm, le maire de Briançon. Il y aura ainsi une arrivée d’étape à Villeneuve la Salle, un départ de Briançon pour une étape qui se terminera au sommet du mythique col de l’Izoard, et un départ d’étape d’Embrun.

Une annonce surprenante à bien des égards. Au délà du fait que les élus sont généralement invités à rester discrets tant que le tracé n'a pas été officiellement dévoilé, la ville de Briançon n'avait surtout jamais manifesté publiquement sa volonté d'accueillir une étape du prochain Tour de France contrairement à Orcières, officiellement candidate, tout comme Gap. SuperDévoluy n'aurait donc pas été retenue non plus dans ce tracé 2017, station pourtant théâtre de l'arrivée finale du dernier Critérium du Dauphiné.

La présentation officielle du tracé aura lieu le 18 octobre prochain à Paris.'

>>>>>Translated with Google Translate<<<<<

Three stages of the Tour de France in 2017. Information confirmed by Christian Prudhomme, Director of the Tour de France with Gerard Fromm, the mayor of Briançon. There will thus be a stage finish in Villeneuve la Salle, a departure from Briançon to a stage ending atop the legendary Col de l'Izoard, and a stage from Embrun departure.

A surprising announcement in many ways. Beyond the fact that elected officials are usually invited to be discreet so that the route has not been officially unveiled, Briançon had mostly never publicly expressed its willingness to host a stage of the Tour de France next unlike Orcières, official candidate, like Gap. SuperDévoluy would therefore have also not been considered in this route in 2017, theater yet final station of the arrival of the last Criterium du Dauphine.

 

[Montecampione]

https://www.lemedia05.com/2016/37392/le-tour-de-france-sera-present-trois-jours-dans-les-hautes-alpes-en-2017/

'Le Tour de France sera présent trois jours dans les Hautes-Alpes en 2017!'

 

[52520Andrew]

Superbagneres would be a lot of fun. That and Port de Bales is one of those combos we are all waiting to see.

 

[Tonton]

Normandie, Bretagne bye-bye, the entire western side of France will see no Tour. Obvious.

I roughly agree with LS' last week prediction. What I'd like to see is a good Vosges stage, the hilly ITT at the PDBF, then an up and down Jura stage, maybe something leading to the Forez for a Ronde stage. Alps over the week-end, boredom thereafter, the usual Montpellier-Carcassonne stretches...opportunity for some cool stuff but then it's Mende, all the Kardashians are reunited. I'd love an up and down Gorges du Tarn leg-breaker.

Pyrenees is where creativity can reach a peak, i.e. the Lac de Cap de Long that I featured in my last TdF design. Something interesting. And I'll say it again, the Basque climbs as a Sunday monster stage would be epic.

Then after rest-day a sprint stage or two along the coast, move inland for classics-type stages. 55K ITT in Tours or something like that, Avenue de Grammont final stretch.

 

[Poursuivant]

Normandie, Bretagne bye-bye, the entire western side of France will see no Tour. Obvious.

I roughly agree with LS' last week prediction. What I'd like to see is a good Vosges stage, the hilly ITT at the PDBF, then an up and down Jura stage, maybe something leading to the Forez for a Ronde stage. Alps over the week-end, boredom thereafter, the usual Montpellier-Carcassonne stretches...opportunity for some cool stuff but then it's Mende, all the Kardashians are reunited. I'd love an up and down Gorges du Tarn leg-breaker.

Pyrenees is where creativity can reach a peak, i.e. the Lac de Cap de Long that I featured in my last TdF design. Something interesting. And I'll say it again, the Basque climbs as a Sunday monster stage would be epic.

Then after rest-day a sprint stage or two along the coast, move inland for classics-type stages. 55K ITT in Tours or something like that, Avenue de Grammont final stretch.

I can't see them doing a flat TT next year, apart from that first stage.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I would hope there will either be a big ITT on the weekend after Bastille day, or on the final Saturday.

Maybe both?[/quot

Never like a TT to be the last stage. IT'S by their nature are boring and should never be on weekends.

I love time trials and don't find them remotely boring

TT'S do nothing for me. It's one cyclist riding around a circuit. Even track cycling is more interesting. At least the Vuelta has a Team Trial which is better viewing than a individual TT.

 

[yaco]

Normandie, Bretagne bye-bye, the entire western side of France will see no Tour. Obvious.

I roughly agree with LS' last week prediction. What I'd like to see is a good Vosges stage, the hilly ITT at the PDBF, then an up and down Jura stage, maybe something leading to the Forez for a Ronde stage. Alps over the week-end, boredom thereafter, the usual Montpellier-Carcassonne stretches...opportunity for some cool stuff but then it's Mende, all the Kardashians are reunited. I'd love an up and down Gorges du Tarn leg-breaker.

Pyrenees is where creativity can reach a peak, i.e. the Lac de Cap de Long that I featured in my last TdF design. Something interesting. And I'll say it again, the Basque climbs as a Sunday monster stage would be epic.

Then after rest-day a sprint stage or two along the coast, move inland for classics-type stages. 55K ITT in Tours or something like that, Avenue de Grammont final stretch.

How many TDF'S do you want Froome to win. Froome just held his ground in the mountains in this TDF.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I would hope there will either be a big ITT on the weekend after Bastille day, or on the final Saturday.

Maybe both?[/quot

Never like a TT to be the last stage. IT'S by their nature are boring and should never be on weekends.

I love time trials and don't find them remotely boring

TT'S do nothing for me. It's one cyclist riding around a circuit. Even track cycling is more interesting. At least the Vuelta has a Team Trial which is better viewing than a individual TT.

The time trials were literally the most exciting this Tour, it was the only time we got to see who was the best

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

From: http://alpesdusud.alpes1.com/news/locales/52401/alpes-du-sud-trois-etapes-du-tour-de-france-en-2017-dans-les-hautes-alpes


'29 Juillet 2016

SPORT / Une information confirmée par Christian Prudhomme, Directeur du Tour de France auprès de Gérard Fromm

-Alpes du Sud-

Trois étapes du tour de France en 2017. Une information confirmée par Christian Prudhomme, Directeur du Tour de France auprès de Gérard Fromm, le maire de Briançon. Il y aura ainsi une arrivée d’étape à Villeneuve la Salle, un départ de Briançon pour une étape qui se terminera au sommet du mythique col de l’Izoard, et un départ d’étape d’Embrun.

Une annonce surprenante à bien des égards. Au délà du fait que les élus sont généralement invités à rester discrets tant que le tracé n'a pas été officiellement dévoilé, la ville de Briançon n'avait surtout jamais manifesté publiquement sa volonté d'accueillir une étape du prochain Tour de France contrairement à Orcières, officiellement candidate, tout comme Gap. SuperDévoluy n'aurait donc pas été retenue non plus dans ce tracé 2017, station pourtant théâtre de l'arrivée finale du dernier Critérium du Dauphiné.

La présentation officielle du tracé aura lieu le 18 octobre prochain à Paris.'

>>>>>Translated with Google Translate<<<<<

Three stages of the Tour de France in 2017. Information confirmed by Christian Prudhomme, Director of the Tour de France with Gerard Fromm, the mayor of Briançon. There will thus be a stage finish in Villeneuve la Salle, a departure from Briançon to a stage ending atop the legendary Col de l'Izoard, and a stage from Embrun departure.

A surprising announcement in many ways. Beyond the fact that elected officials are usually invited to be discreet so that the route has not been officially unveiled, Briançon had mostly never publicly expressed its willingness to host a stage of the Tour de France next unlike Orcières, official candidate, like Gap. SuperDévoluy would therefore have also not been considered in this route in 2017, theater yet final station of the arrival of the last Criterium du Dauphine.

If Prudhomme confirmed this information, does that really mean this will be part of the route for sure? Villeneuve las Salle would be great since this would probably be a downhill finish after the Galibier but the Izoard stage can basically only be a MTT, and even that is hard to imagine since there is basically no place on the Izoard to host a stage finish

And if it wouldn't be a MTT there is only one way they can make a stage from Briancon to the Izoard: