Grand Depart 2017 in Germany?

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Jun 24, 2015
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Well, the problem is I have a reliable source that told me a week ago that a MTF at Izoard was impossible due to logistic constraints - however, local politics keep claiming and confirming this will be the case, and even twice because there will be the amateur Etape du Tour coming to it.

Either my source simply doesn't know that is in fact possible (while she actually worked on the project and told me it was out of the cards for 2017), either politics are lying.

Anyway this stage looks disgusting. The only way to make it great would be adding Parpaillon before Vars. But there's a better chance of winning lottery than seeing this happen.
 
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Linkinitouille said:
Well, the problem is I have a reliable source that told me a week ago that a MTF at Izoard was impossible due to logistic constraints - however, local politics keep claiming and confirming this will be the case, and even twice because there will be the amateur Etape du Tour coming to it.

Either my source simply doesn't know that is in fact possible (while she actually worked on the project and told me it was out of the cards for 2017), either politics are lying.

Anyway this stage looks disgusting. The only way to make it great would be adding Parpaillon before Vars. But there's a better chance of winning lottery than seeing this happen.
Hehe. If we're dreaming... :cool:

If they absolutely want a mtf and Izoard isn't possible, would Granon be an option, or are we still in fantasy land thinking of that?
 
So, Schengen tribute should be certain, a very early knock down chance for Froome with La Planche des Belles Filles followed by probable itt, then a switchback design climaxing at the Alps.
No mention of L'Alpe d'Huez? The switchback design smells fishy in that regard.
It's not an easy route having the difficulties stretched over all three weeks.

And I've been wondering for a while... Does Kraftwerk plan something for this edition? It's not like there's no reason...
 
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Red Rick said:
Looks awful. I don't expect AdH, they should normally go clockwise, and it's been ages they used AdH as anything other than in the final week.

There's a lot of info that it's counter-clockwise AGAIN, which I'm dreading, since they'll probably use the same climbs in the Pyrenees (Pau -> Luchon is already rumoured, and I'm assuming it will be a carbon copy of 2012 or 2016), and then boring stages in the Alps. There will also be a lot of transfers by looks of things, riders will protest and the already boring stages will get even worse... :( Awful route by looks of things, again...
 
I don't get this early disappointment with route rumours.
It should go through Ardennes, Vosges, Jura, twice through Massif Central, Pyrenees and Alps.
That's every single mountain range in France. I remember times when fans were hoping for one of lesser three in addition to the standard two.
 
I must say the Tour de France 2017 route seems a lot weaker than this year. However it doesn't mean the race will become boring.

The Pyreneers looks really bleak. Only two stages and so far not a MTF that intrigues me. Hautacam, Plateau de Beille, Superbagneres? At least the latter has been rumoured but in the end Luz Ardiden seems to win the race :(

The alps also seem poor with mediocre Meribel followed by two stages with only two real mountains - one finishing with a descent. I actually don't dislike the stages to Izoard and Serra Chevalier but they need to be supplemented by at least one mountain stage with 4+ mountains. I like different type of mountain stages to appear in one stage race and they just look so similar (except for the finish).

Massif central might get a lot of focus this year but how many of its hills/mountains are capable of making a difference among the top GC-contenders?

If they plan to spend relatively long time in the massif central why not include Puy de Dome?

I would really like to know why Puy de Dome year after year is skipped. Are anyone familiar with the territory? Are there any logical explanation for the lack of Puy de Dome?
 
Kyllingen86 said:
I would really like to know why Puy de Dome year after year is skipped. Are anyone familiar with the territory? Are there any logical explanation for the lack of Puy de Dome?
Because after 1988, they've decided that because of the railway line the road is too narrow and they'll never go back again... shame, waste of a good HC.
 
Jun 24, 2015
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Kyllingen86 said:
If they plan to spend relatively long time in the massif central why not include Puy de Dome?

I would really like to know why Puy de Dome year after year is skipped. Are anyone familiar with the territory? Are there any logical explanation for the lack of Puy de Dome?
The main problem with Puy de Dôme is a logistic issue. You could bring everything to the top, but once everyone has arrived, bringing everything down is a huge problem. Also, a lot of the space on top of the Puy de Dôme was redone in order to be more walking-friendly. So imagine bringing hundreds of cars and trucks up top.

But the biggest problem is the road leading to the summit, which was narrowed drastically due to the building of a rack railway going up top in 2012. The road is now forbidden to all traffic and is only used for emergencies.

The only climb worthy of HC rating in the Massif Central, outside Puy de Dôme, would be the Col de la Lusette.
LusetteS.gif
 
I have a few questions/observations on the first week:

Q - Is it expected that the stage to Liege will have hills near then end or finish in Ans?
Q - I see the Col de l'Europe is c. 12km from Esch sur Alzette. Is it possible to have a decent hilly stage in this area?
O - Given what is before and after, I assume the stage to Vittel will be a sprint stage
O - I like PDBF, and like the idea of a finish this hard on the first Wednesday
O - Again I assume Stage 6 has to be for the sprinters.
Q - I assume "Les Rousses" is the skiing station preced by the climb we saw in 2010? Around 6km at 5.5%

General observation is that this first week could be one of the more varied first weeks we have had in a while. I don't get the comments on back loading.
 
Sep 26, 2016
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- According to local newspapers, the finish line in Liege will be on the boulevards (Sauvenière, Arvoy ?) so flat. The final kilometers could be hilly with for example Mont-Theux and Côte des Forges. Not really a LBL, even if the flat finish could be a good test for the future of the classic.

- Col de l'Europe has been quoted by a local representative so ASO is aware of this possibility. Followed by an other hill in Oberkorn, it would definitely spice up the end of the stage (with a finish line probably on Belval campus).

- Stage 6 could be a TTT. The rythm of this exercise is following odd years and this Thursday is the best way to place it. Maybe between Belfort and Montbéliard...

- "Les Rousses" is a gathering of different mountain villages which are extended in 20km (from Bois d'Amont to Lamoura). So, there are many possibilities as an arrival site. But yes, the 2010 one is an option. I remember that Andy said after the stage that it would have been worth a pre-Tour trip to discover this climb.
 
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Svam said:
- According to local newspapers, the finish line in Liege will be on the boulevards (Sauvenière, Arvoy ?) so flat. The final kilometers could be hilly with for example Mont-Theux and Côte des Forges. Not really a LBL, even if the flat finish could be a good test for the future of the classic.

- Col de l'Europe has been quoted by a local representative so ASO is aware of this possibility. Followed by an other hill in Oberkorn, it would definitely spice up the end of the stage (with a finish line probably on Belval campus).

- Stage 6 could be a TTT. The rythm of this exercise is following odd years and this Thursday is the best way to place it. Maybe between Belfort and Montbéliard...

- "Les Rousses" is a gathering of different mountain villages which are extended in 20km (from Bois d'Amont to Lamoura). So, there are many possibilities as an arrival site. But yes, the 2010 one is an option. I remember that Andy said after the stage that it would have been worth a pre-Tour trip to discover this climb.
Off topic but glad to see a former Velochrono commentator here!
 
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Kyllingen86 said:
I must say the Tour de France 2017 route seems a lot weaker than this year. However it doesn't mean the race will become boring.

The Pyreneers looks really bleak. Only two stages and so far not a MTF that intrigues me. Hautacam, Plateau de Beille, Superbagneres? At least the latter has been rumoured but in the end Luz Ardiden seems to win the race :(

The alps also seem poor with mediocre Meribel followed by two stages with only two real mountains - one finishing with a descent. I actually don't dislike the stages to Izoard and Serra Chevalier but they need to be supplemented by at least one mountain stage with 4+ mountains. I like different type of mountain stages to appear in one stage race and they just look so similar (except for the finish).

Massif central might get a lot of focus this year but how many of its hills/mountains are capable of making a difference among the top GC-contenders?

If they plan to spend relatively long time in the massif central why not include Puy de Dome?

I would really like to know why Puy de Dome year after year is skipped. Are anyone familiar with the territory? Are there any logical explanation for the lack of Puy de Dome?
The situation with Puy de Dome has already been explained. Linkinito is right that - as long as we don't consider Mont Ventoux, which is debated but every cycling fan knows about obviously - the Col de la Lusette is probably the only HC-worthy climb in the Massif Central that's usable (and would probably require a flat and descent into Le Vigan, or an MTF at Mont Aigoual, to be used in a way that would make a difference), but there are a fair few other climbs that could have an impact.

Obviously we're all familiar with the Côte de la Croix-Neuve in Mende, which is short but steep, and that that and Super-Besse are the only options that tend to pay up (Super-Besse can be decent if approached like in 2008, rather than like in 2011).

The Col du Pré de la Dame is difficult enough that it could create gaps and is a solid cat.1:
Predame.png


There's also an underappreciated long grinder, the mighty Col de l'Œillon, which has many sides, the toughest probably being this northeastern face:
OeillonN.gif


This could lead to a rolling 10km or so to finish at the Croix de Chaubouret, which was an MTF in Paris-Nice a couple of years ago. It's not that tough but could work as a Montevergine type climb I guess.
Croix_de_Chaubouret_depuis_le_Barrage_de_la_Rive1.jpg


The alternative would be to back Œillon into the cat.2 Burdignes after descending into Bourg-Argental and finishing in Annonay.

You could also, further south, use the Col de la Mûre which was used in Paris-Nice in 2011, sadly the rest of the route was pretty poorly balanced so it didn't make a huge difference. With a good up-and-down stage it could have an effect at the end with a Vernoux-en-Vivarais finish like in 2011.
Col_de_la_Mure_depuis_St_Laurent_du_Pape.jpg


There's also the possibility of finishing with the Chalmazel ski station paying, either at the descent or at the summit of the Col du Béal, which hosted an MTF in the 2014 Dauphiné when Froome and Contador went at one another. Again it's not a monster but it's a solid cat.1 that could fairly open up gaps.
stage-2-col-du-beal.jpg


The biggest disappointment from that 2014 stage was that they didn't precede it with the Col de Chansert which backs into it perfectly, and is probably an easyish cat.1 as a lead-in climb. Look at this stage and stick the Col de Chansert between Ambert and Vertolaye and you have a perfectly decent stage (Col de l'Homme-Mort ought to be combined into one long cat.1 grinder).

The issue with the Massif Central is that a large number of the climbs are either not all that steep, so they're sapping without creating gaps, or the stations near to these climbs simply aren't big enough to host the race, so the options become relatively limited once you get to races as big as the Tour, where the space requirements for the race caravan, let alone hotels and facilities for all of the teams, staff and race staff, are much heavier than in smaller races - even ones like Paris-Nice.
 
Sep 26, 2016
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Alexandre B. said:
Off topic but glad to see a former Velochrono commentator here!

I was a Velochrono reader but not really a commentator. You may have mistaken me with someone else (or seen me in forums about PCM and now LeGruppetto). But it's off topic :D


Concerning the Puy-de-Dôme, the eponymous French "département" and its main city Clermont-Ferrand are candidate for the Grand Départ in 2018 (alongside Britanny and perhaps Poitiers-Futuroscope). It allows the possibility of a medium mountain stage as soon as the opening week-end. And the Puy-de-Dôme (the mountain) can still host a stage but with a finish line placed on the parking at the bottom of the now-closed road (so only a 2C climb).
 
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mikii4567 said:
Red Rick said:
Looks awful. I don't expect AdH, they should normally go clockwise, and it's been ages they used AdH as anything other than in the final week.

There's a lot of info that it's counter-clockwise AGAIN, which I'm dreading, since they'll probably use the same climbs in the Pyrenees (Pau -> Luchon is already rumoured, and I'm assuming it will be a carbon copy of 2012 or 2016), and then boring stages in the Alps. There will also be a lot of transfers by looks of things, riders will protest and the already boring stages will get even worse... :( Awful route by looks of things, again...
Seems ASO wants is looking for a new challenger for Froome, and they're suddenly looking at Tom Dumoulin.

*** that route seems awful. Every. Single. Rumor. I've heard is bad
 
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Red Rick said:
Looks awful. I don't expect AdH, they should normally go clockwise, and it's been ages they used AdH as anything other than in the final week.
I suspect that it's in the hope of another Sastre/Sanchez/Contador/Riblon/Pinot style raid like the last few times. TBF, there's been GC drama almost every time it's been used since 2008.
 
Mar 13, 2016
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The combination of Grand Colombier and Mont du Chat sounds great, the addition of the Col de la Biche (http://cyclingcols.com/profiles/BicheE.gif)before the Grand Colombier would be awesome.

Let's not forget that the descent of the Mont du Chat could create bigger gaps than the ascent of it. The descent is steep and has rather small roads. As it seems, this stage will be on sunday, the day before the rest day, so I think we could see some nice GC action, especially from guys like (a more mature) Romain Bardet.

By the way, according to velowire.com, Esch-sur-Alzette won't host a stage finish this year.