Greg was right

[Benotti69]

I bet you do things in private that an offer of 300k still couldnt expose.
Doesn't mean you don't do them.

Im not sugessting you do anything illegal BTW.

Obsfucation yet again.

The offer was obviously for an ex team mate, mechanic, soigneur, etc to come forward and do an Emma O'Reilly. Not for LeMond to come forward. But you know that and are again avoiding the obvious.

When no once came forward and pro cycling has a lot of casualties, the offer was very attractive, it screamed more about LeMond's performances being clean and Armstrong's determination to quash anyone who questioned his.

My personal and private life does not require any offers to expose anything, there is nothing there that isn't common knowledge, legal or otherwise.

 

[patricknd]

when the patron of the peloton is trying to sink your boat with an offer of $300,000.00 someone is gonna try and find something and as hiding it would be difficult, look how many have been found out in that era, so that in my book makes him along with his anti doping actions very very likely clean.

When was the 300,000 offer made?I've heard it mentioned but don't know the particulars

 

[blutto]

...kinda curious...how many times did LeMond beat Hinault in a TT in the TDF...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Benotti69]

Lance Armstrong is brushing off as "nonsense" a reported claim by three-time Tour de France champion Greg LeMond that Armstrong sought to pay someone $300,000 to claim that LeMond used EPO, a banned performance enhancer. LeMond told the German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung's weekend issue that Armstrong tried to implicate him "by all means" in an erythropoietin, or EPO......

I like LeMond's credibility.

 

[VeloCity]

Funny that.
Just about everyone who knew anything about cycling had their supicions of Armstrong, the moment he won the prologue in 99.

It only became a LeMond issue at Tour number 3 though.
Nice timing.

Well yeah, seeing as 2001 - ie the 3rd Tour - is when it first became public that Armstrong was working with Ferrari. Lemond didn't choose the timing, he was asked to comment about the relationship between Armstrong and Ferrari.

But what does any of that have to do with whether or not he was right about Armstrong? Clearly he was.

 

[ChrisE]

I like LeMond's credibility.

Translation: There is no proof of the $300k except what GL says.

Next on National Clinic Enquirer: Greg Lemond comments on Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Stay tuned.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

When was the 300,000 offer made?I've heard it mentioned but don't know the particulars

It was originaly published in the German paper Sueddeutsche Zeitung but it was also mentioned in this New York Daily News article:

"I cannot say who it is, because he still works in cycling, but last year he was offered $300,000 to claim that I had used EPO," LeMond told the Sueddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's largest newspapers.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...kinda curious...how many times did LeMond beat Hinault in a TT in the TDF...

Cheers

blutto

Do you not have the internet?

 

[Benotti69]

Translation: There is no proof of the $300k except what GL says.

Next on National Clinic Enquirer: Greg Lemond comments on Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Stay tuned.

Yeah, you're right and LeMond was wrong about Lance 'Mythical' Armstrong.

Should you not be updating Fabriacationi's website?

Santa Claus, check with cocacola's theft of saint Nic on that one

Tooth Fairy well i suppose that you need to check with your mommy.

 

[ChrisE]

Yeah, you're right and LeMond was wrong about Lance 'Mythical' Armstrong.

Should you not be updating Fabriacationi's website?

Santa Claus, check with cocacola's theft of saint Nic on that one

Tooth Fairy well i suppose that you need to check with your mommy.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah, he suddenly saw the light about LA about the same time he equaled his record. Smart guys like you knew about LA way before that.

 

[VeloCity]

Translation: There is no proof of the $300k except what GL says.

There's no proof that Lemond doped either, yet that doesn't seem to stop you.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not saying I agree with Mr E but your post is typical of others that you have written about posters who disagree with your view on a topic; i.e. anyone who has a different opinion is talking BS and should be edited or deleted.

Not a great premise for a forum for supposedly a free exchange of opinions.

If he is not convinced that GL didn't take PED's thats his opinion and he is entitled to express it. If you want to believe that GL raced clean and was still able to beat the likes of Fignon who doped and the whole Russian team who would almost have definitely doped, then good for you but wearing your insecurities on your sleeve is not a good look.

No - I have no problem with ChrisE, you or anyone stating your opinion.
In fact I encourage you guys to share the information that you have - I don't see why people who claim to have come to an informed opinion have such a difficult time sharing that knowledge with others.

To the Blue - have you ever been banned for having a 'different opinion'? Also - Bennotti is not a Mod and their request appears to have been ignored by the Mods.

 

[red_flanders]

The difference is fact vs opinion.

The point at which EPO was introduced into the peloton is pretty much a fact, regardless of your goalpost moving. Whether or not clean cyclists could compete, on a consistent basis, in GT's vs people roided up is an opinion. I happen to be skeptical of that opinion, but I am perfectly willing to be wrong. Are you? There is no endgame to this debate because what we are debating about cycling in the 80's is opinion. There are no studies that I noted.

If you wish to argue the fact of when EPO was introduced and say it was 94, then that means the greatest superman cyclist of all time got beaten in 1991 by a big dude with mediocre GT results up to that point, that went on to win 5 in a row apparently without EPO.

It also means he got trashed by somebody in 1991 he made up 10 minutes or so on the previous year to win.

Yeah, EPO was introduced in 1994 lol. I have drug testing at my work, or I would be right there with you.

Whenever EPO was "introduced" is not the same time at which it became impossible to compete without it. When it came on the scene it was of course, a few riders. At some point afterwards, probably by 1994 it was clearly impossible to win any race clean, not just the GT's which were getting bagged by the early adopters.

LeMond's decline was clearly partly EPO driven and partly his own rapid decline. That many other champions of the 80's have said the exact same thing, that it became impossible to win without EPO makes this not a discussion about LeMond, but a discussion of what most of the 80's champions felt.

You're smart enough not to actually believe the crap you spew. Setting up ridiculous arguments like your Hampsten argument is simply your own form of entertainment, attempting to get a reaction out of someone. Clearly EPO was on scene in some small degree by 1990. That Hampsten could grab a stage or a win before the mid 90's proves nothing either way. Hampsten himself is ON RECORD as saying EPO changed everything. Not much arguing with that.

 

[VeloCity]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah, he suddenly saw the light about LA about the same time he equaled his record. Smart guys like you knew about LA way before that.

Lemond didn't just start spouting stuff off about Armstrong, he was asked by The Guardian to comment when it came out that Armstrong was working with Ferrari, which happened to be during the 2001 Tour. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[red_flanders]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah, he suddenly saw the light about LA about the same time he equaled his record. Smart guys like you knew about LA way before that.

Do you have any proof he did this out of jealousy? Because there is proof that the question of Ferrari was asked at this time.

 

[andy1234]

Obsfucation yet again.

The offer was obviously for an ex team mate, mechanic, soigneur, etc to come forward and do an Emma O'Reilly. Not for LeMond to come forward. But you know that and are again avoiding the obvious.

When no once came forward and pro cycling has a lot of casualties, the offer was very attractive, it screamed more about LeMond's performances being clean and Armstrong's determination to quash anyone who questioned his.

My personal and private life does not require any offers to expose anything, there is nothing there that isn't common knowledge, legal or otherwise.

Well duh... I understood the 300k wasn't being offered to LeMond LOL.
As has been mentioned many times on here, doping was not an organised activity, so it didn't need the involvement of a team. Cortisone etc could be bought easily from a chemist in belgium. No one else needed to be involved.

I am also very glad that every part of your personal life is "common knowledge" you are truly unique.

 

[poupou]

It seems that Lance's fans have no limits like their idol, they are the real haters.
How low do they sink? Sure new records will be set up day after day with the fall of Lance.

 

[Benotti69]

No - I have no problem with ChrisE, you or anyone stating your opinion.
In fact I encourage you guys to share the information that you have - I don't see why people who claim to have come to an informed opinion have such a difficult time sharing that knowledge with others.

To the Blue - have you ever been banned for having a 'different opinion'? Also - Bennotti is not a Mod and their request appears to have been ignored by the Mods.

I have absolutely no problem with posters stating opinions but when it is so called opinions thinly disguised as trolling, well i speak out if i think it is appropriate. I am aware of the report icon too. I think this thread was started for one purpose only and was not a constructive one.

If the mods see fit to delete my comments i accept that. Not my forum.

 

[Cobblestoned]

There's no proof that Lemond doped either, yet that doesn't seem to stop you.

For me, there is just some evidence.
Greg smokes weed.
Not that I would care about that, but that obviously shows that he is and was accessible for drugs.

I guess Greg just had luck and kept it all very secret during his career. I am not from Mars, so I don't believe in the saint Lemond. That will never change. Whatever people say or think. Maybe just some lighter stuff - but stuff is stuff.
I think most people just (have to) believe to keep their world in order and their arguments right.
Good luck.

 

[Benotti69]

Well duh... I understood the 300k wasn't being offered to LeMond LOL.

You need to improve you langauage skills because that was not obvious, d'uh.

As has been mentioned many times on here, doping was not an organised activity, so it didn't need the involvement of a team. Cortisone etc could be bought easily from a chemist in belgium. No one else needed to be involved.

Actually Stephen Swart disproved that in 1995 with Motorola. Festina in 98, Mapei, plenty of teams had organised programs for doping. Wily Voet in Lemond's years of racing recounts how organised it all was in his book.

I am also very glad that every part of your personal life is "common knowledge" you are truly unique.

I sleep very well at night, thankyou.

 

[skippythepinhead]

The thread is "Greg was right." I have been waiting for a reasonable moderator to either start a "Greg's a doper" thread or ask you guys to rent another room on the forum. Greg doped, Greg didn't dope, I have no evidence Greg doped and no one has testified Greg doped, but you have to admit there's a possibility that no one can say with 100% certainty that Greg didn't dope." There are no ideas or opinions worthy of the value of exchange.

All we have to do is admit that GL was a dirty dog lying doper and the free exchange of ideas and opinions can end, right?

Ok. Greg Lemond was the dirtiest of dirty dog dopers, and his word isn't worth crap. There. Done. Now please go convene a grand jury, thanks.

 

[VeloCity]

I guess Greg just had luck and kept it all very secret during his career. I am not from Mars, so I don't believe in the saint Lemond. That will never change. Whatever people say or think. Maybe just some lighter stuff - but stuff is stuff.
I think most people just (have to) believe to keep their world in order and their arguments right.
Good luck.

I have no idea whether or not Lemond doped. I wouldn't be surprised if he did. I said that there wasn't any evidence that he did.

 

[Cobblestoned]

It seems that Lance's fans have no limits like their idol, they are the real haters.
How low do they sink? Sure new records will be set up day after day with the fall of Lance.

Which fall ?

You guys shouldn't expect too much and don't loose your control.
I guess you need some time to come back on the ground and use brain again.
Most people are still so close to heaven because of Hamilton and some rumours made up by media.


Many people blind and totally hyped by.....whatever.
Please don't expect too much - otherwise the emotional crash will be even harder.
Just trying to help you to come back on the ground. Have seen it all before.
Anyway, it's entertaining to watch you guys freaking out, and seeing all the newbies coming up here with some ridiculous conclusions.
Of course haters "educate" them.
Yeah, Lance will go down....all his wins will be gone now for sure....he will go to jail....now it's over....he has to pay all the money back....he will be broken and in handcuffs.....Greg we love you, you were always right and clean.......99-05 everything gone.......poor Jan......poor blablawahwah.......now it's over, lol

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah, he suddenly saw the light about LA about the same time he equaled his record. Smart guys like you knew about LA way before that.

Actually, LeMonds reasons for speaking out were clearly articulated in From Lance To Landis (and previously LA Confidential).

He had no reason to question Armstrong (in fact he believed it to be due to LAs weight loss) until he met Julien DeVries in France in July 2000 and he told him that he had accompanied LA at a training camp prior to that 2000 Tour and that Dr. Ferrari was also there.

Soon after he ran in to James Stratt who told him about the 'Hospital Room' confession.

In April the following year he again met DeVries who said that the French investigation into USPS at the time would come to nothing as he had signed an affidavit saying the Actogevin found was to treat his diabetes.
That same month LeMond doubts grew when he heard Prof. Coyle talk about LA's transformation being down to 'mechanical efficiency'.

Then in the start of July it was confirmed that LA was working with Ferrari (for the Hour record)and LeMonds comments to the Sunday Times were before the Tour had ended.

 

[red_flanders]

Anyone ever notice there's no debate on forums like this about whether Hampsten doped? That Armstrong fans don't feel the need to speculate on him?

Neither LeMond or Hampsten has one shred of evidence of doping against them, and both have a lot of people in the sport going out of their way to point out they thought they were totally clean.

Only one difference. LeMond dared criticize Armstong.

He's been right about just about everything. All this conversation about him is fueled simply by the insecurity and defensiveness of a those who are made uncomfortable by his stance. Not a fact against LeMond to be found. Not a one.