Agree with everything, and OFC I tend to 2) at the end of your post.
Let people live in freedom as long they dont hurt the freedom of others...
Why must all this fanatics try to oppress us? Be it religion leaders (especially those living by the green book of evil), Femi-Nazis, gender mainstream barkers, political corrected brain deads, and more... You guys (yes also you Jane) are in a minority that wants to "heal" the quiet masses. It only leads to conflicts. Just try freedom Jane. It works wonders for most of us...
Merckx index said:
I?m not sure this is the best thread for this discussion, as this issue is not about rapes, true and false.
I think its ok with the mods, since the thread went into all kinds of what is rape or not, sexism or not, harassment or not, etc... I mean everything about Huxtable is said and done anyway. Lets go on with this thread instead of opening another 5-post thread. We already have enough of them.
Merckx index said:
If you really want to combat sexism, shouldn?t you just get rid of the podium girl tradition? Aren?t podium girls just standing up there a display of sexism? How does Jane defend that? And how does anyone defend having them kiss the winners, then arguing that the winners shouldn?t touch the women? Who decides where the line is? Kissing is OK, but touching isn?t? Why?
Good questions I would like to get answers from Jane too. Or better, from hardcore Femi-Nazis who think the mere act of looking at a woman is sexual harassment in itself.
Merckx index said:
If a well-dressed woman approached a man she didn?t know in a public place (or a private place, for that matter), and kissed him, that would be considered a come-on. Once you allow this in a podium ceremony, you?re sending the message that the usual rules don?t apply. There?s an assumed degree of intimacy. That being the case, how is anyone supposed to know what rules do apply? If Sagan put his lips forward when the podium girl tried to kiss him, would that be inappropriate? If he hugged her, would that be inappropriate? If he put his hands on her head when she kissed him, would that be inappropriate?
More good questions towards Jane, and the Femi-Nazis anyway.
For me its clear cut: A woman that doesnt wanna be a podium girl just dont ask for the job. So why making a problem out of nothing because a few women feel offended? I think the real reasons for the hardcore Femi-Nazis is clear*: a) They hate men anyways since a
few did bad things to them. Now
every other men is guilty by nature, for everything. b) The majority of the Femi-Nazis are just jealous of women being more beautiful than them. They cant accept that pure beauty of nature beats intelligence and hard work. Thats it. No more, no less... To those: Just accept reality and live with it, but dont try to rule other peoples lives because of your shortcomings... Me I would like to have been a better athlete. Do I now be jealous of those who made it? Hell no, I even watch them world class athletes doing sports!
* They use the feminism as a shield for their own agendas. Its a hard slap into the face of the true original feminists who fought good fights (like the right to vote, equal rights, etc)... And now? The fake feminists of nowadays fight against freedom, or at least stupid things like street "harrasment". But OTOH are coward enough to
not stand up against real issues like I mentioned in the religion and world politics thread.
Merckx index said:
I think the problem is that we have unwritten rules about what is and isn?t appropriate. But when rules are unwritten, that is just inviting people to have differing interpretations over them. Defenders of the podium girl tradition will argue that it?s all in good fun, nothing harmful. But others, like Foxxy, can argue that if that?s in good fun, so was what Sagan did.
OFC Sagan was right. He is kissed by woman, and he returned it. I see zilch problems. Zero, nothing... It was just a little fun for all.
Merckx index said:
The girls aren?t chosen because they?re smart or athletic or have great social skills (even if that sometimes might be the case). They?re chosen for sex appeal. It?s kind of hypocritical to promote sex appeal, then complain when someone acts the way people normally do when they find something appealing.
Exactly. But in the Femi corner, sex appeal should not exist. Ouch!
Merckx index said:
If the winners are supposed to act like robots, why not just have them shake hands with some race organizer? What exactly is supposed to be accomplished by having people who have nothing to do with the race on the podium in the first place?
Thats what will happen if all these minority fanatics take over. Everybody has to act like a robo to please their weird POV of the world. Hope they never prevail.
Merckx index said:
I see only two consistent positions here: 1) end the podium girl tradition completely, with the rationale that it?s just another in the long line of sexist advertising; 2) keep the tradition, but accept the fact that the boundaries of acceptable behavior are blurry, that not everyone has exactly the same standards. I lean towards 1), as it would end all the potential conflicts. But I do understand Foxxy's Bacchanalia view, which does have a long tradition of its own.
Why would you tend to 1)? Just to please minorities? Today its the podium girls, tomorrow its beach wear, and the next day its your own bedroom that gets sacrificed in the name of political correctness to please small groups of hardcore fanatics! Dont give up your freedom that easily...