GW501516 for performance enhancement.

[FrankChickens]

Pat is making all the right noises about uplifting African athletes, but what was he doing racing in SA in the '70s during the cultural boycott under a false name? The twit got caught by a sharp-eyed journalist and had to sit out the olympics as a result.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McQuaid#Cycling_career

Everything we're hearing from him now - African grand tour winners, his fictitious anti-doping crusade - all smacks of utter desperation.

Here in SA there's no chance that our extremely small local racing scene will prepare anybody - white or black - to win a grand tour in the coming years. Chris Froome took us all completely by surprise.

 

[BroDeal]

So now Thor is lighter than ever. Evans said he lost weight to climb better. BMC may be on the same diet as Sky.

 

[Freddythefrog]

What I don't get is Froome being the chosen one for 2013. ...

.....I really just don't see huge excitement and inspiration coming from a Froome win.

(You are entirely correct.) Neither did Sir Brad or a lot of others. But Sir Dave nailed Froome's colours to the mast good and early. Good and early.

Yes, it could be anyone in a Sky jersey crossing the line in Yellow in Paris but Sir Brad was going to be a far better story, but it was not going to happen and it was not going to happen before the Giro started and that was regardless if Sir Brad had won the thing.

 

[thehog]

(You are entirely correct.) Neither did Sir Brad or a lot of others. But Sir Dave nailed Froome's colours to the mast good and early. Good and early.

Yes, it could be anyone in a Sky jersey crossing the line in Yellow in Paris but Sir Brad was going to be a far better story, but it was not going to happen and it was not going to happen before the Giro started and that was regardless if Sir Brad had won the thing.

So I make that there are 4 options for such a decision.
i) the figures were out and Brad & Rigoburto were nosediving and Froome was through the roof so there would be no contest.
ii) Team management had a guilty conscience about bullying Froome in 2012 and wanted to make clear, in the most public way, that they would do the right thing by Froome this year, regardless of Rigoburto or Sir Brad winning the Giro and any variations in form Froome went through in the 2 months before the Tour
iii) Froome gave them a nice offer that it was impossible to turn down.
iv) a story was made up to garner more headlines and stem the speculation but behind the scenes Brailsford told them it was anyone's race, the leader had to show form before the Tour.

If somebody has another viable alternative, I would be pleased to read it. This is the clinic and I am on for number 3. Maybe we will find out in 10 year's time.

Froome would have gone full genius on his own at the Tour. They only way to keep him in check so he doesn't look too ridiculous is the give him the leadership and make sure he doesn't make it too obvious.

 

[manafana]

If Froome did have that virus/bug then getting rid of it really would have made a big difference.

 

[BroDeal]

if froome did have that virus/bug then getting ride of it really would have made a big difference.

How do you explain his sucking before he had the bug?

 

[mewmewmew13]

How do you explain his sucking before he had the bug?

He went from Bilharzia victim to superstar...sorry but it was a miraculous recovery.

Remember when another rider's body changed after a life threatening disease?

 

[thehog]

He went from Bilharzia victim to superstar...sorry but it was a miraculous recovery.

remember when another rider's body changed after a life threatening disease?

The disease made him go sideways up hills.

 

[Tinman]

The disease made him go sideways up hills.

Are you suggesting Wiggins has been struck down by a similar parasite?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The disease made him go sideways up hills.

He did win the nuclear jock race, though..mad props for that.

 

[zachateseverything]

The Dauphine may show us a bit more about this new "chicken" effect. Ie. too skinny for some reason doesn't seem to work any more.

Super low body fat percentage + bad weather at many races this year = sickness sweeping across the peloton.

 

[Tinman]

Super low body fat percentage + bad weather at many races this year = sickness sweeping across the peloton.

I think so too. But there may well be a doping angle also.

Without EPO one needed a certain muscle mass to win. With Epo the story shifted to higher cadence at less power per stroke and less muscle mass requirement.

With the new metabolic agents such as GW it is claimed one can retain power whilst being light and lean. Potentally makes for a great EPO microdosing combo.

They are now actively testing and busting riders for GW at the same time when several of the new look lean chickens are dropping by the wayside with reduced power outputs due to "illness".

 

[blackcat]

I think so too. But there may well be a doping angle also.

Without EPO one needed a certain muscle mass to win. With EPO the story shifted to higher cadence at less power per stroke and less muscle mass requirement.

With the new metabolic agents such as GW it is claimed one can retain power whilst being light and lean. Potentally makes for a great EPO microdosing combo.

They are now actively testing and busting riders for GW. At the same time when several of the new look lean chickens are dropping by the wayside with reduced power outputs due to "illness".

Actually, Ferrari's advice with Armstrong was to have a big off-season and come muscled.

riis, indurain, and armstrong suggest otherwise. all plus 70kg. ullrich in 97 was what, 72kgs or so? he was really lean. epo supercharged those athletes with more muscle mass. before that, you could have your pure grimpeurs like rasmussen and contador. but those guys, perhaps basso, but even basso is abotu 6feet, 71kg, he is not a columbian grimpeur. rass and contador are not setting the climb records of pantani riis and jamie burrow.
there used to be pure grimpeurs before oxygen vectors. now there is not. wiggins when he was +70kg and on a minimum medical program, could climb but IN THE GRUPPETTO OR AUTOBUS!!!

 

[thehog]

He did win the nuclear jock race, though..mad props for that.

It was a mere stepping stone to Grand Tour stardom.

2010 being a key year in development.

 

[doctorilla]

hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.

 

[Cyivel]

hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.

Thank You Brother, check your PM's.

 

[thehog]

hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.

Can you send by USPS?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.

How much would it cost to get a list of your clients, their email addresses, names and delivery addresses?

 

[Berzin]

Actually, Ferrari's advice to Armstrong was to have a big off-season and come muscled.

That advice was before his cancer diagnosis, when he was a dedicated Classics and short stage race rider. Armstrong was physically at his biggest during the 1996 season, when it was obvious he was marinating in testosterone and HgH.

One can assume that when he came back in 1998 and told Ferrari he wanted to go for the Tour after his fourth placing at the Vuelta, Ferrari's doping regimen for Lance evolved.

 

[blackcat]

yeah. but still big for a GT rider tho. definitely not the tight end he was however.

 

[tacosupreme]

It's strange to me, but then again bike riders and their handlers aren't particularly impressive people. Trust me on this one. There are some thoughtful folks, and then there are some real idiots. You should never be surprised by stupid, particularly when it comes to folks involved in bike racing.

As far as Telmisartan not being banned (yet), that's a WADA thing, not a UCI or a McQuaid thing. I don't know why they've been dragging their feet on it, but they've completely ignored the well-established secondary effects of it. I understand why ARB's aren't specifically banned, but the metabolic modulatory effects are equal to or exceed that of drugs which are banned (PPAR agonists like GW1516). The side effects are FAR less and it's not banned. So any semi-thougtful folks will be using this stuff instead.

So I may be late in on this game just simple because I was searching the web monster about this drug Telmisartan. I'm a pretty avid cyclist and racer, and I also have high blood pressure hereditary... despite riding 700 miles a month. Anyway... I just wanted to post in here because I have first hand experience with this drug in concert with cycling.

I cant speak for everyone that has ever taken it, but after a week of taking this medicine (a fairly low dose) I saw my watts drop significantly while my heart rate would skyrocket.

A typical sustained 320 watt effort (non medicated) would take me from Zone 2 HR to Zone 5 over the course of 10-15 minutes. After returning to an endurance pace (watts) for 1-2 minutes my HR would fall back to Zone 2 as expected, and I could then repeat the effort with similar results.

While on Telmisartan a 320 watt effort would jack my heart rate to near max over the course of about 1 minute. Returning to endurance pace (watts) my heart rate would never fall below high Zone 3, and any increase in power would bring my heart rate back up to near max again.

Maybe there are people out there that tolerate this medication differently. But I called my doctor and had him take me off this medication right away. Seems like an impossible medication to label performance enhancing... I'd go the other way with that, extreme performance reducing.

I know, I'm super late to this thread... haha. Oh well. Take it or leave it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

A long New Yorker story on the search for exercise in a pill, covering GlaxoSmithKline's GW510516 and the University of Southampton's Compound 14 and a lot more besides. Worth the read.

Iron Julius still takes 516, although lately he has noticed a decrease in the drug’s quality. “I’m a volunteer firefighter so stamina at times is very important,” he explained. “If you research, many police and firefighters are on some form of performance-enhancing substance as the jobs are sometimes physically demanding.” Iron Julius told me that around a third of the people he sees at the gym are using 516, without any side effects that he’s heard about. When I asked whether he would recommend it, his response was, “Hell yeah man, try it. It don’t mess with hormones and it increases performance.”

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

A long New Yorker story on the search for exercise in a pill, covering GlaxoSmithKline's GW510516 and the University of Southampton's Compound 14 and a lot more besides. Worth the read.

Iron Julius still takes 516, although lately he has noticed a decrease in the drug’s quality. “I’m a volunteer firefighter so stamina at times is very important,” he explained. “If you research, many police and firefighters are on some form of performance-enhancing substance as the jobs are sometimes physically demanding.” Iron Julius told me that around a third of the people he sees at the gym are using 516, without any side effects that he’s heard about. When I asked whether he would recommend it, his response was, “Hell yeah man, try it. It don’t mess with hormones and it increases performance.”

Thanks for the link, will have a read. Small note on that quote (bolded bit), that's exactly what it does do. It's a PPARd agonist, PPARd being a transcription factor that causes peroxisome proliferation (peroxisomes are responsible for long chain fatty acid metabolism among other things). GW501516 is basically a synthetic hormone. If you read about it then it'll likely not be referred to in that way, as it isn't specific enough. It'll be referred to as a PPAR ligand or something along those lines.

This highlights a major issue. For many people, when you say hormone, they think of steroidal hormones and human growth hormone, but there are many different hormones, many of which occur naturally in the diet, many which are endogenously produced and many which can be taken exogenously. In fact, testosterone and human growth hormone are very good examples of how different hormones can be. People apply the small amount of knowledge they have and it can be very dangerous. I think this is the first publication showing the relationship between GW501516 and tumour proliferation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm993


Although the chances of this happening were already understood as you can see from this paper by the same authors:

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/24/13275


You'll note that these papers are by the same first and last author, DuBois has several publications in this area and you'll also note a GW researcher listed as an author.