Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

[86TDFWinner]

Re: Re:

Calm down. This is opinion not life or death. Fine, then quote the evidence. Play the ball not than man. Thanks.

Wow, you have the nerve to ask me to quote the evidence?

http://www.repubblica.it/online/sport/pantapro/capo/capo.html

http://www.repubblica.it/online/sport/lista/pantani/pantani.html

Do you have English versions? But why couldn't you do that at the beginning? Why do you need to be prodded several times? This is an opinion forum not university. Better to figuratively speaking throw your arms around in the air as it quite typical here particularly with high post count posters.

Hi Cookster,

I would recommend reading The Death of Marco Pantani by Matt Rendell. It goes into forensic detail about his doping.

Is there an English version and is it available in the states?

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Calm down. This is opinion not life or death. Fine, then quote the evidence. Play the ball not than man. Thanks.

Wow, you have the nerve to ask me to quote the evidence?

http://www.repubblica.it/online/sport/pantapro/capo/capo.html

http://www.repubblica.it/online/sport/lista/pantani/pantani.html

Do you have English versions? But why couldn't you do that at the beginning? Why do you need to be prodded several times? This is an opinion forum not university. Better to figuratively speaking throw your arms around in the air as it quite typical here particularly with high post count posters.

Hi Cookster,

I would recommend reading The Death of Marco Pantani by Matt Rendell. It goes into forensic detail about his doping.

Is there an English version and is it available in the states?

The Rendell book is English and on Amazon so I am sure you can get it delivered to you in the states. Roundabout linked Italian stories no doubt they cover similar ground as the book but I'd trust Rendell more.

 

[spalco]

Re:

WRT Pantani, the big difference presented here seems to be between those who believe doping had no major impact on his performance, and those who believe all his performance was down to doping. Anyone who seeks to occupy the middle ground gets shot by both sides.

I don't see how that makes a difference whatsoever. Hypothetical essays about how a race would've looked like if the riders competed without drugs are pointless. I don't think a mediocre athlete doping is significantly more deplorable than a talented athlete doping. They still each made their own choices.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

WRT Pantani, the big difference presented here seems to be between those who believe doping had no major impact on his performance, and those who believe all his performance was down to doping. Anyone who seeks to occupy the middle ground gets shot by both sides.

I don't see how that makes a difference whatsoever. Hypothetical essays about how a race would've looked like if the riders competed without drugs are pointless. I don't think a mediocre athlete doping is significantly more deplorable than a talented athlete doping. They still each made their own choices.

I fear you have not understood what I actually posted. Certainly I haven't a clue what you're trying to say.

 

[spalco]

I just don't see any room for "middle ground" in this discussion. Either someone was doping or not. Some fans of particular riders seem to be excusing their doping because of their supposed natural talent and how unfair it is that supposedly lesser riders beat them by being better "responders" - Pantani is an example, Ullrich, Contador I guess.

And I think this distinction is meaningless. What exactly was it that you were trying to say?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I just don't see any room for "middle ground" in this discussion.

There is loads of room for middle ground. Not all performance improvements are down to doping, that ought to be obvious to all. You can improve. The difficulty comes in saying where the improvement comes from. Some here want to say no one has any natural talent, that everything is doping, others go just as crazy but at the opposite extreme, imagine that doping made no real difference.