Heras positive overturned

[Merckx index]

The article then goes on to list the irregularities of the process focusing on the delivery of the test samples to the lab and the analytical methods not following the certified procedures.

Thanks for this link. More specifically, these seem to be the key technical points:

a series of irregularities of the analyses that have harmed the right to the defense of the appellant, among them who the samples were not given within 24 hours, when agreeing with festive, but almost 40 hours later, to room temperature, by person or company who does not know themselves.

I take this to mean that the samples were allowed to sit for almost two days before being refrigerated (and maybe also that the chain of custody was disrupted during this period). As we have discussed here before, such improper handling of samples is unlikely to convert an EPO positive to a negative. So from a scientific point of view, it is unlikely to matter, though from a legal point of view, it of course does and should.

LA’s team should look at this very closely, because it could have relevance to the ’99 samples. They could point to this as precedent. In the GJ, of course, the point is not to determine whether a sanctionable offense occurred, but whether the '99 samples constitute evidence of doping. Still, a legal precedent like this has to help them a little.

the fact that the first analysis of the sample ' A' and the contraanálisis of ' B' they have been realised by the same technicians

We have had complaints here before that A and B samples should not be analyzed by the same lab. IIRC, many raised this during Floyd's case. Here we have the same technician analyzing the two samples.

the breach of the norms regarding the confidentiality of the identity of the runner, since in the documentation given to the laboratory they built, of unnecessary way, data of its health that allowed their perfect identification.

So there was enough other information so someone could figure out who it was? I thought all the technician had was a control number?

neither the procedure of detection of prohibited substances, nor the one of confirmation, were including within pertinent accreditation ISO

The lab was not accredited to perform the EPO test?

 

[hfer07]

I imagine he could sue the RFEC for a monetary compensation.

that's the alternative, but imagine-if his positive case took almost 6 years to be cleared out, oneself wonders how long this case will ever take to settle- specially knowing first hand how slow this kind of procedures take in Spain....

 

[icefire]

The Spanish court has no jurisdiction over UCI events and the UCI will not honor this. If Spain continues to overrule WADA system (i.e. CAS), they risk being kicked out of the Olympics and world championships.

The UCI will not honor this decision, nor should they.

I would agree with you, but the court sentence has a provision for that objection:

When RFEC rules on a sport competition it is running a public service as a partner agent of the public administration, so RFEC is bound by Spanish Law.

UCI, WADA and all the sport governing bodies need to think seriously about this and make sure that their procedures and their actions can't be questioned by civilian courts.

 

[Moondance]

Meh.... Some sloppy reporting. The UCI has the say-so about stripping (and restoring to I guess) of results, so this isn't necessarily the final word in that matter.

Also, 'Only in Spain' is very much appropriate. Spain is fast becoming a legal Zimbabwe in doping matters.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Manzano????? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

You get funnier by the post gumbah.

Yes Manzano - the whisteblower.

Heras had nothing to do with Puerto.

 

[L'arriviste]

Yes Manzano - the whisteblower.

Heras had nothing to do with Puerto.

You mean that Heras wasn't a whistleblower? That would seem to be true. But he did have plenty to do with the Puerto investigation though.

In Capitulo IV of the dossier he is often mentioned, though mostly by suspicion of course:

Doc[umento] 10 referido a HERAS, con programaci&#243]

 

[icefire]

thanks for the primary source (i will take a look later)...still, i can't see how the word 'overturned' can be applied here.

You're right. Heras went to the civilian court and they ruled that they had no attribution on the case. Then he appealed to a higher instance, the Supreme Court of the Region of Castilla y León. This regional Supreme Court has now overturned the ruling of the lower instance but there is no verdict yet on the actual case.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You mean that Heras wasn't a whistleblower? That would seem to be true. But he did have plenty to do with the Puerto investigation though.

In Capitulo IV of the dossier he is often mentioned, though mostly by suspicion of course:

Correct - it was just in reply to SC's assertion that Heras positive was a 'point of origin to Puerto.

.....

It all has a point of origin. And that point of reference is Heras' positive.
.......

 

[L'arriviste]

Correct - it was just in reply to SC's assertion that Heras positive was a 'point of origin to Puerto.

Thought so. I doubted the Doc would be unaware of that.

 

[Deagol]

Look, to all those who talk, or think that you talk, from a moral superiority pedestal: Your opinion, apart from certain forumers in Cyclingnews.com, does not matter.

We're all imperfect in an imperfect world. What makes you think cyclists ought to be (what you're not)?

Wow, so cheating is OK, then ?

You use the fact that we don’t live in a perfect world to justify that imperfection.
This attitude is part of the problem. The world is what we make it

 

[Señor_Contador]

Correct - it was just in reply to SC's assertion that Heras positive was a 'point of origin to Puerto.

I said that?????

 

[Señor_Contador]

Wow, so cheating is OK, then ?

You use the fact that we don’t live in a perfect world to justify that imperfection.
This attitude is part of the problem. The world is what we make it

Cheating is OK when there's a leveled playing field where everyone is given equal opportunity to succeed.

I happened to be born in a capitalist country. I don't pretend trying to change it. I roll with the punches much like the inmense majority of people in this country. It's those who think that capitalism is a show and they somehow must run it (or else it will kill many people), or criticise it to death, that are dead boring and in need of a wake-up call.

Same with cycling and doping. Everyone wants to declare the war on doping in sports. First, how do you declare war on an act? You can declare war on a physical entity like a country, a city, an empire, et cetera; but to imply that you are declaring war on something abstract (as is doping) is called pretending. And, by extension, that applies to the ones criticizing the dopees. You guys are pretending you want to clean up cycling.

And if you think that testing will prevent doping you are a pretender and delusional at the same time.

He dicho.

 

[doperhopper]

crappy Kelme amateurs

Look at Manzano's wiki - what a bunch of crap was Kelme (doctor gave him something, then he collapsed in the break, wtf). Heras was lucky to end up in the hands of professionals (dr. F.), only to be busted once he left Lance's squad.

 

[Benotti69]

Cheating is OK when there's a leveled playing field where everyone is given equal opportunity to succeed.

<snip>

shows how much you know about doping.

 

[Señor_Contador]

shows how much you know about doping.

Go ahead, enlighten me.

 

[hrotha]

Look at Manzano's wiki - what a bunch of crap was Kelme (doctor gave him something, then he collapsed in the break, wtf). Heras was lucky to end up in the hands of professionals (dr. F.), only to be busted once he left Lance's squad.

Fuentes was Kelme's doctor.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Absolutely.

If Lance, Miguel, Lars, Eddie, et cetera, decided to take PEDs to do the TdF and make it more interesting... all the while making the month of July the most entertaining month of the year... I could care less.

They're all heroes in my book.

Not in my book. I prefer genuine heros as opposed to fabricated ones. If I want fabricated heros I'll watch the WWF... which I wouldn't do BTW.

You also would not think them heros when your kids start popping PEDs in middle/high school (I've witnessed it in high schools). Especially knowing the PEDs could have been manufactured in fly-by-night garage labs. The FEDS busted some of those kind of labs in Cali not long ago for just that.

 

[Deagol]

Cheating is OK .........

That explains a lot. I rest my case.

 

[Señor_Contador]

That explains a lot. I rest my case.

Dude, don't do that because I will cuss you out like you wouldn't believe.

Disagreeing with someone is one thing.

Quoting lies is something else.

 

[poupou]

I would agree with you, but the court sentence has a provision for that objection:

When RFEC rules on a sport competition it is running a public service as a partner agent of the public administration, so RFEC is bound by Spanish Law.

UCI, WADA and all the sport governing bodies need to think seriously about this and make sure that their procedures and their actions can't be questioned by civilian courts.

WADA have thought about it, but they can adapt to all legislation of all countries, so countries has to adapt to WADA rules.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Dude, don't do that because I will cuss you out like you wouldn't believe.

Disagreeing with someone is one thing.

Quoting lies is something else.

That seemed to be a fair translation.

Can we get back to Heras instead of endless back and forth about why cheating is okay?

Is the civil case the reason why Heras was blacklisted? I always wondered why Heras was never allowed to return. His racing of mountain bikes showed that he still wanted to compete.

 

[icefire]

WADA have thought about it, but they can adapt to all legislation of all countries, so countries has to adapt to WADA rules.

Correct. But actors must play by the rules and procedures they have set themselves, which is what is being put under question in this case. If they prove what they say about samples not properly stored and custodied, delivery to lab with data that would allow identification of the subject, lab not accredited for EPO test and so on, RFEC, UCI and WADA would not be left in a good position. Anyway, they'll call their big brother IOC to settle the matter out of court if they don't like the final sentence.

 

[Deagol]

Dude, don't do that because I will cuss you out like you wouldn't believe.

Disagreeing with someone is one thing.

Quoting lies is something else.

Umm, I didn't misquote you. When you see "...." in a quote, it means that there was more to the OP's original text then was quoted. Hence "Cheating is OK ......" means that the quote does not purport to quote your entire post. You might want to go back and read what you posted. And if you wanna cus me out, go for it. LOL.

As a side note: I have nothing against Heras as a cyclist or person. He was quite humble and respectful when interviewed after that Vuelta. But cheating is still cheating, perfect world or not. So, you can chill.

 

[Benotti69]

Go ahead, enlighten me.

nearly 600 posts and you still dont know. Enlightenment is obviously not for the blind.

 

[slowspoke]

Banned or not, Roberto was still a double world champion

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/399834/heras-crowned-world-champion.html