Berzin said:
That's the Giant-ification of manufacturing bikes. There are three, maybe four sizes made. The rest can be "fixed" with seat post and stems. They get what they get.
Some would likely complain if it wasn't a part of their paycheck.
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That's the Giant-ification of manufacturing bikes. There are three, maybe four sizes made. The rest can be "fixed" with seat post and stems. They get what they get.
Some would likely complain if it wasn't a part of their paycheck.
I think most every top competitor is doping of some kind but I separate that from the racing aspect. So there are quite a few I like. To name some of the more obvious or proven to have doped riders:
Nibali, Contador, Cancellara, Vino, Voigt, Evans, the Schlecks, Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Gilbert 2011, I'm sure I'm forgetting some others.
Nibali, Contador, Cancellara, Vino, Voigt, Evans, the Schlecks, Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Gilbert 2011, I'm sure I'm forgetting some others.
pastronef said:
He drove so much on the edge like he was whizzed up anyway I think him doping would have been terminal, though in the group b era other more technical drivers driving late at night and very long hours could have been on it. Fantastic seeing him on one of the stage presentations this tour, I forget which one.
I have co-pilot rides in a selection of group b's coming up shortly thanks to a very dear and grateful mate. Audi S1, rs200 and 205T16 on a stage. I can't wait but sadly Ari won't be scaring me to death, they don't push the classics anywhere near to how I remember then thundering past me at 1am in Kielder on the RAC.
Libertine Seguros said:
Did Bartali dope?
He was known for finding out what Coppi was on but did Bartali dope?
Benotti69 said:
This was a response to the statement "I would never use the word hero for anyone in any sport".
I understand the thinking behind such a statement, however I think Gino is an exception to this, and whether or not he doped is irrelevant.
Bartali's drugs were evening brandys and cigars and an industrial amount of espressos (really phenomenal amounts - like 20 of them).
He was a little obsessed with what Coppi was up to, but it was all fair back then. If they doped, so what - they were allowed to.
He was a little obsessed with what Coppi was up to, but it was all fair back then. If they doped, so what - they were allowed to.
Benotti69 said:
If he did, it's a very well kept secret.
Closest thing you'll find is a doctor once told him smoking cigarettes before a race will speed up your heart ... I think he was a chain-smoker before he heard that advice though.
Different question
What in cycling is heroic?
I don't think winning is heroic, but if it is - Armstrong.
Things outside of cycling, where they happen to dope?
Then it would be Armstrong.
What in cycling is heroic?
I don't think winning is heroic, but if it is - Armstrong.
Things outside of cycling, where they happen to dope?
Then it would be Armstrong.
Libertine Seguros said:
What Bartali did during the war had nothing to do with sport, IMO. Yes he was a hero.
It seems to me that those who actually are at the age/ intelligent level, to still be succesptible to heroworship tend to justify their heroworship of a rider by deluding themselves into believing that rider (who in 99.9% of cases coincidentally happens to be of the same nationality as the fan) is a crusader against doping, and thus portraying the rider as the embodiment of the noble fight against doping.
Ironically, in all cases that I know of, the rider has never actually done anything against doping and in all cases that I know of, is actually very friendly with and defensive of his colleagues that have been caught doping.
Which explains why dopers are rarely viewed as heroes. Those intelligent enough to base their opinion on who is doping on more than just nationality, tend to also be intelligent enough to know that all humans are flawed especially athletes and not really heroworship anyone anymore.
Those who aren't simply twist facts in their minds to make the rider out to be not only clean but also a superhero fighting doping. If the rider has been caught, they simply revert to whatever half arsed excuse the rider came up with in his defense when he originally tested positive, and follow it.
Ironically, in all cases that I know of, the rider has never actually done anything against doping and in all cases that I know of, is actually very friendly with and defensive of his colleagues that have been caught doping.
Which explains why dopers are rarely viewed as heroes. Those intelligent enough to base their opinion on who is doping on more than just nationality, tend to also be intelligent enough to know that all humans are flawed especially athletes and not really heroworship anyone anymore.
Those who aren't simply twist facts in their minds to make the rider out to be not only clean but also a superhero fighting doping. If the rider has been caught, they simply revert to whatever half arsed excuse the rider came up with in his defense when he originally tested positive, and follow it.
Possibly the one doped performance which has a humanitarian angle. I'm not sure that's the word I'm looking for, but there was something about that performance that I can't fully dismiss with doping.robow7 said:
Energy Starr said:
An illegally increased hematocrit enabled him to place high, but it didn't do anything to aid the pain he must have been in just to continue on.
That's right. Hamilton wore his teeth to the nerves from the pain. No matter who you are, that's another level.robow7 said:
Please enlighten me...Don't be late Pedro said:I am familiar with them both albeit you should zip it
Umm, you do realise that Simeoni continued to testify after that don't you? Even after riders such as Pozzato spat at him and Ekimov tried to crash him? Simeoni was banished to the Pro Conti ranks for that. I'd also like to know how Simeoni was responsible for Armstrong's actionsDon't be late Pedro said:
gooner said:
Van Hooydonck was racing for Rabobank when he decided to retire in April 1996. I'm sure that that is because he had the intuition that Raas was finally willing to jump on the bandwagon, which did happen the month after.
gooner said:
Was it that widespread in the eighties or before? I think that are examples of riders in those era who built up a solid palmares probably without doping or who at least won major races, racing clean, though using dope on other occasions...
I still see Kelly as a champion though, for what he did in the eighties, at least.
gooner said:
Van Hooydonck, Maassen, Delion, Peter De Clercq. These guys have all retired at a relatively young age (around 30) in cycling's worst era because they refused to dope.
They might still be a minority but if heroes exist, they are, not the dopers of that era.
IzzyStradlin said:
Should that imply that you care if classics' level guys doped?
Well that would be too good to be true. It's just CN after all. Don't dream, Echoes...
Berzin said:
Not with me. I would have said exactly the same as I did. I have no favourite (EPO, blood transfusion, testosterone, HGH) doper. I put them all in the same bag and then I close the bag. No mercy for them.
Echoes said:
same or more. the 20's and 50's probably the most hardcore preparations ever by far.
when the doping tests mean that you had to check the riders in their pockets. those were antidoping tests in the 80s or before lol
the son of the great rene vietto said it well that pro cycling wasn't him for him because you couldn't made it without lots of medicines. and that was well before epo...of course many people still love to lie themselves that taking huge amounts of amphetamines, many corticosteroids, cocktails that would make charlie sheen blush, is not a big advantage lol. yes riding like a madman on speed is definitely not an advantage. someone saying it should test this on the road lol
most of the guys who refused blood medicines at beginning of the 90s it was because they were afraid of it. and rightfully so. there were discussions in the peloton that the guys taking epo would die after 3 or 4 years anyway so it doesn't worth the risk. fignon, boyer for example were frightened to take a drug that supposedly makes the blood, jelly.
i wouldn't say the riders who refused epo were heroes but of course you can respect their attitude.
Yeah, I think we are now talking at cross purposes... I was just explaining why I used the phrase 'zip it' and there was no other subtext.42x16ss said:Umm, you do realise that Simeoni continued to testify after that don't you? Even after riders such as Pozzato spat at him and Ekimov tried to crash him? Simeoni was banished to the Pro Conti ranks for that. I'd also like to know how Simeoni was responsible for Armstrong's actions
Gavandope said:
Definitely. Though calling him a hero would be a bit of a stretch.
He was my favourite rider, even though he was doped to the gills.
If a rider dopes, I'd at least prefer if one rides like him rather than like Levi or Menchov.
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