- Aug 3, 2015
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Anyways, I've never seen the great one better than this eason. He will win Flèche Wallone easily. Amstel will be hard, but there are lots of riders, including Valverde (I think), who would want to animate that race. Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Kwiatkowski etc.
Liége will be hard as usual, but if he doesn't get sick or crashes, he will obviously be the favourite going into that race.
Liége will be hard as usual, but if he doesn't get sick or crashes, he will obviously be the favourite going into that race.
- Jul 16, 2010
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Gilbert has had a far better season so far than Valverde though. He won 3 times in style, while most of Valverde's wins are from uphill sprints.
I'm honestly not impressed by this generation of cyclists for the hilly classics/stage races.
The cobbled classics on the other hand are stacked with great one-day specialists like Degenkolb, Kristoff, Boonen, Cancellara (retired), Sagan, Greg van Avermaet, Gilbert, etc.
Cyclists for the hilly classics are usually wheelsuckers like Gerrans and Kwiatkowski in Milan-San Remo. Cancellara and Sagan were clearly the strongest in those particular editions.
A lot of strong cyclists simply don't target LBL even though they could easily win it if they arrived in top shape. I'm thinking of Nibali or even Froome here. Froome beat Valverde on the Mur de Huy stage in the Tour as well. Very telling if you ask me.
GVA winning the Olympic Road Race was also very telling. And Nibali was the strongest in the race and he almost never enters LBL in his best shape. He reserves that for the Grand Tours or the Olympics. The only exception was 2012 where he almost won LBL in the most brilliant way possible.
Kwiatkowski is very talented, but too inconsistent. One day he's great, but the other day he's crap. Alaphilippe doesn't look like a winner to me. Maybe that can change in the future, he's still young.
DFA123 said:
Gilbert has had a far better season so far than Valverde though. He won 3 times in style, while most of Valverde's wins are from uphill sprints.
I'm honestly not impressed by this generation of cyclists for the hilly classics/stage races.
The cobbled classics on the other hand are stacked with great one-day specialists like Degenkolb, Kristoff, Boonen, Cancellara (retired), Sagan, Greg van Avermaet, Gilbert, etc.
Cyclists for the hilly classics are usually wheelsuckers like Gerrans and Kwiatkowski in Milan-San Remo. Cancellara and Sagan were clearly the strongest in those particular editions.
A lot of strong cyclists simply don't target LBL even though they could easily win it if they arrived in top shape. I'm thinking of Nibali or even Froome here. Froome beat Valverde on the Mur de Huy stage in the Tour as well. Very telling if you ask me.
GVA winning the Olympic Road Race was also very telling. And Nibali was the strongest in the race and he almost never enters LBL in his best shape. He reserves that for the Grand Tours or the Olympics. The only exception was 2012 where he almost won LBL in the most brilliant way possible.
Kwiatkowski is very talented, but too inconsistent. One day he's great, but the other day he's crap. Alaphilippe doesn't look like a winner to me. Maybe that can change in the future, he's still young.
- Nov 7, 2010
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Another danger could be that his form is so good that everyone starts to ride just against him - kind of like they did to Sagan in the classics. They'll lean on him to close every gap and will try to attack him early, so the team will be really important - could do with Moreno returning to somewhere near his best for Liege.
Yeah, it's kind of exciting to see how far this run of form can take him this season. Of course, there is a risk that the illness messed up his plans and he's peaked too soon, but I still think it could just be the training benefit of his ridiculously hard season last year.Valv.Piti said:
Another danger could be that his form is so good that everyone starts to ride just against him - kind of like they did to Sagan in the classics. They'll lean on him to close every gap and will try to attack him early, so the team will be really important - could do with Moreno returning to somewhere near his best for Liege.
- Aug 3, 2015
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I don't expect anything from Moreno, the only thing I've seen him do in a Movistar kit is hold on for dear life in the back of the groups. Thats maybe his role, mechanicals and team GC and everything (lol), but I doubt it will be any different. Never really liked him when he raced with and for Purito as well.
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But then again, it's not so easy to split the race apart in the Ardennes (if it's dry-ish). And the other strong teams might all be happy to keep it relatively tight until near the end. At Liege, Sky would think Kwiatkowski has a decent shot at a sprint, and Quickstep might be prepared to gamble on Alaphilippe's finish at Liege. So they could become unlikely allies for Valverde this year.
That's true, but I think they mainly left it until the final kms in the last few years. And now they'll know that when Valverde is at his best, he can still close down every gap and win, like Liege 2015. I think they could try something from further out.Mr.White said:
But then again, it's not so easy to split the race apart in the Ardennes (if it's dry-ish). And the other strong teams might all be happy to keep it relatively tight until near the end. At Liege, Sky would think Kwiatkowski has a decent shot at a sprint, and Quickstep might be prepared to gamble on Alaphilippe's finish at Liege. So they could become unlikely allies for Valverde this year.
Valverde attacked four times on the climb, pulled Woods/Meintjes back and was still able to win the stage.
He is looking very good for the Ardennes. Did he use too much energy or is he going to destroy the rest in the hilly classics?
He is looking very good for the Ardennes. Did he use too much energy or is he going to destroy the rest in the hilly classics?
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The difference with such teams is that they have multiple cards to play, an Orica/Quickstep/Sky can send a Kreuziger/Yates, D.Martin/Gilbert, Rosa/Henao upfront with possible winning chances. Yet they can speculate at a sprint with guys as Gerrans, Alaf and Kwiat. With Movistar it's only the Valverde card.
DFA123 said:
The difference with such teams is that they have multiple cards to play, an Orica/Quickstep/Sky can send a Kreuziger/Yates, D.Martin/Gilbert, Rosa/Henao upfront with possible winning chances. Yet they can speculate at a sprint with guys as Gerrans, Alaf and Kwiat. With Movistar it's only the Valverde card.
- Mar 19, 2009
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And don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.
While you can absolutely make an argument that Phil has had a better season so far, saying it's far better is just an example of your bias. Both have been terrific but they've done different types of races.
Bala has won 8 times, most of any rider in the peloton. You saying most of his wins are from uphill sprints is an outright lie. And Valverde has won as many races in style as Gilbert has.
I'd give Gilbert a slight edge right now because of the monument win but if Valverde wins Pais Vasco that could change things. Of course GVA would pass both with a Roubaix win and you could certainly argue his season has already been better.
Never change, Pisti.El Pistolero said:
And don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.While you can absolutely make an argument that Phil has had a better season so far, saying it's far better is just an example of your bias. Both have been terrific but they've done different types of races.
Bala has won 8 times, most of any rider in the peloton. You saying most of his wins are from uphill sprints is an outright lie. And Valverde has won as many races in style as Gilbert has.
I'd give Gilbert a slight edge right now because of the monument win but if Valverde wins Pais Vasco that could change things. Of course GVA would pass both with a Roubaix win and you could certainly argue his season has already been better.
- Jul 16, 2010
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Ronde van Vlaanderen is far bigger than Pais Vasco or Catalunya, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
Gilbert is the first rider to win LBL and Ronde van Vlaanderen in twenty years and he won it with a 56km solo and you give him a slight edge because Valverde won some boring Spanish races? Ok...
And most of his wins came from sprints or attacking on the finall hill/mountain. How is that a lie?
And no, GVA's season is currently far worse than Gilbert's. You're crazy if you think Omloop + E3 Harelbeke + GW is better than the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I'm Flemish, I think I know how important the Ronde van Vlaanderen is. GVA would trade in his 3 wins for the Ronde van Vlaanderen, no doubt about that.
Quantity of wins is irrelevant, Kittel also won many races this season, but he's not even at the ankles of Gilbert at the moment.
And no, Valverde hasn't won as many races in style as Gilbert has. All his Monument wins and only GT win came from sprints or wheelsucking and conservative racing.
jaylew said:Never change, Pisti.El Pistolero said:
While you can absolutely make an argument that Phil has had a better season so far, saying it's far better is just an example of your bias. Both have been terrific but they've done different types of races.
Bala has won 8 times, most of any rider in the peloton. You saying most of his wins are from uphill sprints is an outright lie. And Valverde has won as many races in style as Gilbert has.
I'd give Gilbert a slight edge right now because of the monument win but if Valverde wins Pais Vasco that could change things. Of course GVA would pass both with a Roubaix win and you could certainly argue his season has already been better.
Ronde van Vlaanderen is far bigger than Pais Vasco or Catalunya, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
Gilbert is the first rider to win LBL and Ronde van Vlaanderen in twenty years and he won it with a 56km solo and you give him a slight edge because Valverde won some boring Spanish races? Ok...
And most of his wins came from sprints or attacking on the finall hill/mountain. How is that a lie?
And no, GVA's season is currently far worse than Gilbert's. You're crazy if you think Omloop + E3 Harelbeke + GW is better than the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I'm Flemish, I think I know how important the Ronde van Vlaanderen is. GVA would trade in his 3 wins for the Ronde van Vlaanderen, no doubt about that.
Quantity of wins is irrelevant, Kittel also won many races this season, but he's not even at the ankles of Gilbert at the moment.
And no, Valverde hasn't won as many races in style as Gilbert has. All his Monument wins and only GT win came from sprints or wheelsucking and conservative racing.
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Yeah agree, dunno wot you're all chatting about, not seen the thread, but Flanders is HUGE HUGE HUGE.
Mentioning Pais Vasco in the same breath disrespectums the history of the sportum IMO IMO.
Quality not quantity innit innit.
El Pistolero said:jaylew said:Never change, Pisti.El Pistolero said:
While you can absolutely make an argument that Phil has had a better season so far, saying it's far better is just an example of your bias. Both have been terrific but they've done different types of races.
Bala has won 8 times, most of any rider in the peloton. You saying most of his wins are from uphill sprints is an outright lie. And Valverde has won as many races in style as Gilbert has.
I'd give Gilbert a slight edge right now because of the monument win but if Valverde wins Pais Vasco that could change things. Of course GVA would pass both with a Roubaix win and you could certainly argue his season has already been better.
Ronde van Vlaanderen is far bigger than Pais Vasco or Catalunya, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
Gilbert is the first rider to win LBL and Ronde van Vlaanderen in twenty years and he won it with a 56km solo and you give him a slight edge because Valverde won some boring Spanish races? Ok...
And most of his wins came from sprints or attacking on the finall hill/mountain. How is that a lie?
And no, GVA's season is currently far worse than Gilbert's. You're crazy if you think Omloop + E3 Harelbeke + GW is better than the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I'm Flemish, I think I know how important the Ronde van Vlaanderen is. GVA would trade in his 3 wins for the Ronde van Vlaanderen, no doubt about that.
Quantity of wins is irrelevant, Kittel also won many races this season, but he's not even at the ankles of Gilbert at the moment.
Yeah agree, dunno wot you're all chatting about, not seen the thread, but Flanders is HUGE HUGE HUGE.
Mentioning Pais Vasco in the same breath disrespectums the history of the sportum IMO IMO.
Quality not quantity innit innit.
- Mar 19, 2009
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My pointing out the number of wins really was meant to be about your other comment but I do see how you may not have gotten that.
It's hard to discuss anything with you when you make up things that were never said and you start arguing about things we're not even discussing.
You're certainly a fan of the straw man.El Pistolero said:jaylew said:Never change, Pisti.El Pistolero said:
While you can absolutely make an argument that Phil has had a better season so far, saying it's far better is just an example of your bias. Both have been terrific but they've done different types of races.
Bala has won 8 times, most of any rider in the peloton. You saying most of his wins are from uphill sprints is an outright lie. And Valverde has won as many races in style as Gilbert has.
I'd give Gilbert a slight edge right now because of the monument win but if Valverde wins Pais Vasco that could change things. Of course GVA would pass both with a Roubaix win and you could certainly argue his season has already been better.
I don't think anyone did.
Pretty sure Gilbert hasn't won LBL in like 6 or 7 years.
What you wrote wasn't the truth.
Is that the argument? I'm pretty certain GVA was 2nd at RVV and that those aren't the only races on the calendar.
Nice. You honestly think I don't know that?
Oh, I agree GVA would trade his cobbled wins for a RVV. Hell, he'd probably trade all his results this year and maybe even all his wins the last two years combined save maybe the Gold medal, but of course that doesn't actually mean anything.
Wonderful example.
My pointing out the number of wins really was meant to be about your other comment but I do see how you may not have gotten that. You're just all over the place. GTs? What are you talking about now? Not even going to address this foolishness.
It's hard to discuss anything with you when you make up things that were never said and you start arguing about things we're not even discussing.
- May 15, 2011
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The last rider to win both the Ronde van Vlaanderen and LBL in his career was Michele Bartoli. He won the Ronde in 1996 and LBL in 1997. That's exactly 20 years ago.
The second guy is just the first loser. Gilbert was second in Dwars Door Vlaanderen and E3 Harelbeke. No need for me to mention those results as they don't matter, only wins count.
Actually it means a lot. It means Gilbert has had a far better season so far than GVA.
I don't think I've ever seen Valverde win a WT race with an epic solo or aggressive racing. Best I can think of is his second win in the Clasica San Sebastian.
When it comes to non-WT races I can only think of Roma Maxima and the Vuelta a Murcia, not exactly the most prestigious races. Not comparable to Omloop het Volk/Nieuwsblad or the Driedaagse van de Panne-Koksijde anyway.
The last rider to win both the Ronde van Vlaanderen and LBL in his career was Michele Bartoli. He won the Ronde in 1996 and LBL in 1997. That's exactly 20 years ago.
The second guy is just the first loser. Gilbert was second in Dwars Door Vlaanderen and E3 Harelbeke. No need for me to mention those results as they don't matter, only wins count.
Actually it means a lot. It means Gilbert has had a far better season so far than GVA.
I don't think I've ever seen Valverde win a WT race with an epic solo or aggressive racing. Best I can think of is his second win in the Clasica San Sebastian.
When it comes to non-WT races I can only think of Roma Maxima and the Vuelta a Murcia, not exactly the most prestigious races. Not comparable to Omloop het Volk/Nieuwsblad or the Driedaagse van de Panne-Koksijde anyway.
- Aug 3, 2015
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Badly hopes Valverde beats Contador today (he should because Alberto almost can't walk after that horrible crash) and showing who the superior cyclist is. Well, Valverde should obviously still be considered superior to Contador at this point when he is beating him at this own game in the stage races (2 for 2 this season), but it will be a strong marker to lay down.
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Van Avermaet has the best season so far, then Valverde, and then Gilbert. And that could easily turn in Valverde's favor if he wins Pais Vasco. 8 wins, 5 WT, easily tops what Gilbert did, no matter how epic his Ronde win is. It's still a Monument, not freaking Tour de France! Kwiatkowski won one, and won Strade Bianche in pretty dominant fashion, by that logic he would be equal to Gilbert. But he isn't. Every result matter. His 2nd places in E3 and DDV also matters. Dwars door Vlaanderen was won by his teammate because of his presence, that counts too. Counting only wins is a little bit childish I think, this sport is much more than that.
- Jul 16, 2010
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Only losers are satisfied with second or third places.
Kwiatkowski has had the second best season so far.
A Monument is much more prestigious than a one-week stage race. Otherwise someone like Richie Porte would have a comparable palmares to Philippe Gilbert.
Mr.White said:
Only losers are satisfied with second or third places.
Kwiatkowski has had the second best season so far.
A Monument is much more prestigious than a one-week stage race. Otherwise someone like Richie Porte would have a comparable palmares to Philippe Gilbert.
- Jul 16, 2010
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You can't overtake a Monument winner by winning some Spanish prep races I'm afraid. Or Flemish prep races for that matter.
Gilbert wrote history last Sunday, how many active cyclists have won the Ronde van Vlaanderen and LBL in their career? How many won the Ronde van Vlaanderen with a 56km solo?
You need more than Catalunya and Pais Vasco to beat that.
Valv.Piti said:
You can't overtake a Monument winner by winning some Spanish prep races I'm afraid. Or Flemish prep races for that matter.
Gilbert wrote history last Sunday, how many active cyclists have won the Ronde van Vlaanderen and LBL in their career? How many won the Ronde van Vlaanderen with a 56km solo?
You need more than Catalunya and Pais Vasco to beat that.
- Jul 16, 2010
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It's what big champions like Gilbert, Boonen, Cancellara and Contador think.
What's really childish is cheering for a second or third place.
Mr.White said:
It's what big champions like Gilbert, Boonen, Cancellara and Contador think.
What's really childish is cheering for a second or third place.
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