Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.

I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

And for the record, I don't see Valverde as a hero, I just see him as a regular bike rider who is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
However, what I don't see any reason to either is painting him as a villain. In fact there are very few professional bike riders I see any reason to paint as a villain, would probably have to murder someone for that to happen...

Valverde may not have come back stronger than ever after his crash, but he certainly came back stronger than expected! Understandably, since it was feared that he wouldn't be able to come back.

I think this is the big thing. There were question as to rather he could even come back at all. Even with what he and his friends where saying during the fall it was hard to believe until he actually started racing again. He did come back stronger than anyone would have expected.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.

I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

And for the record, I don't see Valverde as a hero, I just see him as a regular bike rider who is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
However, what I don't see any reason to either is painting him as a villain. In fact there are very few professional bike riders I see any reason to paint as a villain, would probably have to murder someone for that to happen...

Valverde may not have come back stronger than ever after his crash, but he certainly came back stronger than expected! Understandably, since it was feared that he wouldn't be able to come back.

I think this is the big thing. There were question as to rather he could even come back at all. Even with what he and his friends where saying during the fall it was hard to believe until he actually started racing again. He did come back stronger than anyone would have expected.

It's worth to admire. Crystal clear.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Just to make it clear.
Lots of comment about Valverde multiple WC / Olympic Race podium could be summed up be more successful than someone such as Peter Sagan, Nibali etc.

There are different point of views to evaluate him.
1.
Oh, Valverde are so consisent and always comes close in those most important races (WCRR/TDF/ORR/PR)
He has a Veulta and 4 LBL (important great races but behind those.)
Then, he won a lot of WT / HC races.
He is productive rider with a lot of wins.
Conclusion is that he is greatest, even Nibali and Sagan are left behind.

2.
Well, he is great.
See he is productive winner. Won a lot great races.
But...
When come to most important races, he was appointed as team leader of one of strongest team.
(You knows, golden decade spain team are crazy strong.)
Over so many years, more than 10 editions of WC/OR could fit his ability perfectly. Some of editions are within his strike range.
With support of a strong team, he comes close. But no win.
Some may consider the true is that : "When strongest guys from different fields with best preparation, Valverde will come be one of the best and beaten by the best.

So, I admire Valverde is great. Very close to greatest and just half step behind.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Just to make it clear.
Lots of comment about Valverde multiple WC / Olympic Race podium could be summed up be more successful than someone such as Peter Sagan, Nibali etc.

There are different point of views to evaluate him.
1.
Oh, Valverde are so consisent and always comes close in those most important races (WCRR/TDF/ORR/PR)
He has a Veulta and 4 LBL (A little be less important great races)
Then, he won a lot of WT / HC races.
He is productive rider with a lot of wins.
Conclusion is that he is greatest, even Nibali and Sagan are left behind.

2.
Well, he is great.
See he is productive winners. Win a lot great races.
But...
When come to most important races, he was appointed as team leader of one of strongest team.
(You knows, golden decade spain team are crazy strong.)
Over so many years, more than 10 editions of WC/OR could fit his ability perfectly. Some of editions are within his strike range.
With support of a strong team, he comes close. But no win.
Some may consider the true is that : "When strongest guys from different fields with best preparation, Valverde will come be one of the best and beaten by the best.

So, I admire Valverde is great. Very close to greatest and just half step behind.

Paolo Bettini won't let italian disappointing. Óscar Freire strike the red point when the target is big.
When Mark Cavendish in good from TDF stages and WC is easy win.

Following these guy... Cadel Evans and Vino are with quite similar abilities as Valverde. Both won less races.

Cadel Evans hit highest points twice.. TDF and WC. More importantly, UCI has never restrict him from racing during the dark period. This is the most prestigious and respectful thing.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.

No. It's hard to say he's even close to the greatest.

Valverde on the other hand is one of the greats. He's the reference point for the peloton in the last 10 years at least. Teams decide their tactics based on the fact whether he races or not. Only a handful of riders in a generation deserve such recognition. Valverde is one of them, alongside Bettini, Contador, Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan (and Froome).

Wiggins was one of the greats for only a year.

 

[Red Rick]

Wiggins? Seriously? I'm not even sure Pisti rates Wiggins over Valverde

 

[El Pistolero]

Cyclists that were or are active in the 21st century that are better than Valverde: Lance Armstrong, Johan Museeuw, Paoli Bettini, Tom Boonen, Fabian Cancellara, Alberto Contador, Vincenzo Nibali and Peter Sagan. Gilbert is close, but his crappy years at BMC aren't easily forgotten. I'd say Froome too, but he'll probably lose his Vuelta win (which would push Nibali to 8 big wins).

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.

I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

Agreed, it is amusing at times and also one the dumber arguments that happens around here. It's all just individual opinion and half the time it's based on whatever rider someone wants to uplift or downgrade. There is no real hierarchy of races other than the broad classifications and whatever silly ranking or classification a fan comes up with doesn't mean a damn thing to anyone but themselves and it certainly doesn't mean anything to the riders.

As for Pisti, he doesn't have to ever say anything nice about Valverde no matter what he does - he doesn't like the guy, which is perfectly fine. The difference with Pisti is that he can't stand that other people like him and cheer his accomplishments. Most of us don't constantly go to the threads of riders we don't like just to trash them.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.

No. It's hard to say he's even close to the greatest.

Valverde on the other hand is one of the greats. He's the reference point for the peloton in the last 10 years at least. Teams decide their tactics based on the fact whether he races or not. Only a handful of riders in a generation deserve such recognition. Valverde is one of them, alongside Bettini, Contador, Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan (and Froome).

Wiggins was one of the greats for only a year.

This. Valverde is a reference point for the peloton. No matter what race it is that he shows up to he's a favorite. I mean in 2016 he was on the start line of the Vuelta, which was his 3rd GT of the season and was not the race leader, yet fans AND riders had him listed as one of the favorites to at least podium if not actually win it. Yet there's not another GC rider in the peloton that even seems interested in attempting all 3 GTs in one season. Alaphilippe said a year or two ago that Valverde is his reference point. That he measures how much he's improved and how much more he needs to improved based on his racing against Valverde.

 

[Koronin]

Happy Birthday, Alejandro!

 

[toolittle]

Re:

Wiggins? Seriously? I'm not even sure Pisti rates Wiggins over Valverde

Peoples are always view things differently.

Bradley Wiggins careeer is extra-ordinary. Not as many people joined road race so late but still succeed. Not so many people transform from Track/MTB/CX then road and then back to Track/MTB/CX are still in the top of the worlds in 3 sections of careers.

I think I shouldn't talked too much about Wiggins inside Valverde threa. Just a reply there and I will stop.

My evaluation of Bradley Wiggins

He started from Track cycling. He won pursuits and madisons within Velodrome and end his career inside velodrome with olympic 4 olympic gold medals and 7 world championship titles. (Inside Track only)

He turned his attention to road after 2008 Olympic when he was 29 and came back to Track again when he was 34 @ 2014 seasons end.

Within these 5 years, he completed 2 transformations : from Track and then to Track.
He won 4 x WT Stages races and 1 TDF. Podium in Veulta. 1 x Olympic TT and 1 x WCTT under the completion with Tony Martin and Fabian Cancellera.

At 2015, he marked hours record as 54.5km when he was 35. No one could come close.

Within last 2 decades, not that much people could have similar success within 5 years of completion. If you think transformation must take 1 year at least. Wiggins real career in road completion is only 3 years.

Let take 5 of best years from Valverde career, you could see how good Wiggins done.
Wiggins is a king but with 14 crowns.
Valverde is a king without any crown.

Youtube records most of the racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYm2ECRk8R4&t=237s
This is a kind of hilly classic king winning... Check out others. For example simon gerrans and Valverde.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

What is this bashing of Vino a few posts up? People who dispute him as the greatest cyclist of all time are heretics and ought to be treated as such. Mods? ban these infidels.

 

[Netserk]

Aye, both Vino and Pantani are clearly above Valverde, even if El Pistolero disagrees.

 

[Parker]

Valverde seems a bit like a tennis player or golfer who has won lots of tournaments but never landed a Grand Slam/Major

It's hard to think of genuine greats that didn't any win of: Tour de France, Worlds, Roubaix + Flanders.

(The irony is that if doping hadn't existed I think he would have - but you can't discuss that sensibly on this website)

 

[Valv.Piti]

I don't get how Vino is ahead of Valv. Less so clearly ahead....

 

[Tonton]

Re:

What is this bashing of Vino a few posts up? People who dispute him as the greatest cyclist of all time are heretics and ought to be treated as such. Mods? ban these infidels.

Different place in the forum, different times not so long ago, I drafted both Valverde and Vino in my La Vie Pas Claire team. I picked Vino round 3, Valverde round 4...you win .

But to be serious and on topic, Valverde's miserable week (I'd take it for a career, many riders would) can't take away that Don Alejandro won a bunch for so long, won a lot in '18. No reason to drag him in the mud (on this particular forum), cry "oh gloom oh doom", he will be back. Valverde can win everything just like Vino attacks everyone. He always come back. That we know. Only Nibali can get the rainbow over him IMO...

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

What is this bashing of Vino a few posts up? People who dispute him as the greatest cyclist of all time are heretics and ought to be treated as such. Mods? ban these infidels.

Different place in the forum, different times not so long ago, I drafted both Valverde and Vino in my La Vie Pas Claire team. I picked Vino round 3, Valverde round 4...you win .

But to be serious and on topic, Valverde's miserable week (I'd take it for a career, many riders would) can't take away that Don Alejandro won a bunch for so long, won a lot in '18. No reason to drag him in the mud (on this particular forum), cry "oh gloom oh doom", he will be back. Valverde can win everything just like Vino attacks everyone. He always come back. That we know. Only Nibali can get the rainbow over him IMO...

When I went back and looked at his classics races in general and the Ardennes in specific he actually didn't have a bad classics season or Ardennes week. In both cases there are a lot of riders who would kill to have those results for just one season. It would make an entire career for many riders and for the rest would be a great classics season or Ardennes week. The only rider in the entire peloton that we look at with these results:
4th - Strade Bianche
11th - Dwars door Vlaanderan
5th - Amstel
2nd - Fleche Wallone
13th - LBL

and say he had a disastrous classics season and a even more disastrous Ardennes week is Valverde. He's set the bar so high that anything less is looked at very differently than if it was anyone else. He's actually never won the Ardennes double in back to back years, he's never won LBL in back to back years. Yet we actually expect him to win the Ardennes double just because he showed up and is on the start line.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Aye, both Vino and Pantani are clearly above Valverde, even if El Pistolero disagrees.

Just no.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Aye, both Vino and Pantani are clearly above Valverde, even if El Pistolero disagrees.

Just no.

Pantani was far more talented, but mentally very fragile.

 

[Koronin]

Today Bala was honored with the Favorite Son of Murcia award.
In comments he made he said he'll made a decision next year as to rather he keeps racing past 2019 or not. He said that it basically is just going to depend on how he's feeling. Right now he feels great, but that he is starting to feel the effects of his age.

 

[Scarponi]

The way these stages have gone at the Giro he could have collected three stages by now

 

[Koronin]

The way these stages have gone at the Giro he could have collected three stages by now

Very true, however he was in no condition to go this year. He said after LBL that his body was screaming for a break. There's no way he could have raced it this year. A lot of that is because of the injury and not getting a real break during the off season. Pushing so hard to get back for the start of the season and being nervous about his return and then also pushing to be in top shape for his return to prove that he was alright.

 

[Valv.Piti]

1 month is too much...

The legend will race again tomorrow, first race after Liege, the Route du Sud, Occitanie or whatever it is called. Its a nice little race which he also did in 2014 before his quite disappointing Tour. I don't hope the sickness has hit him too hard, regardless, he will still have plenty of time catch up after this race. Bernal isn't riding so he should win.

 

[Koronin]

Agreed. Even if hasn't fully gotten rid of the cold (he said minor or mild cold) it's not like he has that much competition in this race. Unless he's really sick he should be able to win.

(On a side note, I'm glad to know I'm not only one that has said whatever this is race is called for it's name. )