Hincapie confession?

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del1962 said:
I was teading Hincapies affadavit and saw a tweet from someone who has seen the Lance film about Hincapie lacking remorse, he testimony seemed very much matter of fact, but did he stop in 2006 when he said, it just does not make sense
The film clips also seem somewhat disingenuous when George tries to finger Frankie as the guy who taught him how to use EPO, yet offers no comment with regards to witnessing or otherwise collaborating with Lance on doping cocktails.

Knowing how close the two are, and knowing that others (e.g. Tyler) have provided evidence on this, and knowing that Lance's wife dished out the pharmaceuticals, this redirection and omission by George is striking.

It seemed to be George's way of striking back/out at Frankie, effectively blaming him for Lance's downfall.

Of course, Lance's downfall cannot be blamed on anyone but Lance.

And, if you want to assign some of the guilt to influenced parties (who have already suffered by going along with Lance), by testifying, George is at least as complicit in assisting the downfall as Tyler or Frankie, etc.

Dave.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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hrotha said:
I didn't find Hincapie's affidavit to be the most questionable of the lot.
I quote:

''After Lance retired I began to think about my involvement in doping and that it was time to try to stand up for change in sport. I was tired of doping and I thought if I talked with other riders perhaps I could influence a change in our sport. As I talked with other riders most approved.''

So, actually, Saint George helped cleaning up the sport? Who dissaproved?
And, Saint George was tired of doping but he did use testosterone? Yep, when you limit that till treshold it is no doping of course. UCI/WADA code says bandwith use of testosterone is no doping so Saint Cyclists doesn't think he actually IS doping.

I continue, I quote:

''In 2006 I talked to Ferrari about wanting to use fewer PED's and blood tranfusions. I had some blood extracted but not re - infused. I used some testosterone patches and pills but by the end of 2006 I had stopped using PED's.''

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie,+George+Affidavit.pdf
number 90 and 91

I continue:
http://www.georgehincapie.com/bio/

2006
1st, US Professional Road Race Championship
1st, Stage 2, Tour of California
1st, Stage 5, Tour of California
Stage 2, Tour of California, Leader's Jersey
Stages 2, 5 & 6, Tour of California, Sprinter's Jersey
1st, Sage 4, Eneco Tour of Benelux
Stage 4, 5, Eneco Tour of Benelux, Leader's Jersey
3rd, Tour of Flanders
3rd, Prologue, Tour of California
4th, Overall, Tour of California
4th, Stage 3, Tour of California
5th, Gent-Wevelgem
5th, Stage 1, Tour of California
8th, Tirreno-Adriatico
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=3336
9th, Clasica San Sebastian
Stage 1, Tour de France, Yellow Leader's Jersey
32nd, Tour de France


How many riders have testified they were of the bloodbags and suddenly have one of their best year in their carreer? Age 34 in this case. In 2005 Captain BB becomes 21st in the Tour and has his ridiculous win on Pla d'Adet with the help of his friend the BB and the next year he comes in 32nd in the Tour? Not even mentioning the classics. Captain George also forgot to mention his sudden climbing capabilities ending up tenth at the Dauphinee Libere in his bio, just on testosteron that is. 2006 indeed was a very magic year in cycling.

Little sidenote:
In pre - massive - epo - use years a normal GC at the Dauphinee looked kinda like this
1. Charly MOTTET (Fra) en 33h54'03"
2. Robert Millar (Gbr) à 18"
3. Thierry Claveyrolat (Fra) à 1'50"
4. Fabrice Philippot (Fra) à 2'49"
5. Laurent Bezault (Fra) à 2'56"
6. Martial Gayant (Fra) à 3'58"
7. Eric Caritoux (Fra) à 4'26"
8. Hector Pattaroyo (Col) à 5'10"
9. Mariano Sanchez (Esp) à 6'14"
10. Alberto Camargo (Col) à 7'09"
11. Oscar Vargas (Col) à 7'50"
12. Pascal Simon (Fra) à 9'01"
13. Abelardo Rondon (Col) à 9'30"
14. Carlos Jaramillo (Col) à 9'51"
15. Bernard Richard (Fra) à 11'15"
16. Atle Kvalsvoll (Nor) à 11'57"
17. Jean-Claude Leclercq (Fra) à 13'27"
18. Luc Roosen (Bel) à 13'32"
19. Yves Bonnamour (Fra) à 16'23"
20. Pablo Wilches (Col) à 17'21"
21. Edwig Van Hooydonck (Bel) à 17’58"
22. Jérôme Simon (Fra) à 18’19"
23. Luis Moreno (Col) à 19’47"
24. Fabian Fuchs (Sui) à 20’09"
25. Pascal Lance (Fra) à 20’43"

I dont see any third tier sprinters who turned into classics rider there.

And thus I conclude George is full of George.

George should write a book named ''Grazie mille for my carreer Michele''.

[just check his results pre - Ferrari]

I think it is a good thing guys like these are allowed to train junior cyclists.

End of rant.

:(

[but I do agree with Hrotha on the questionable part]
 
Hincapie is no different than anybody else.

Always claiming they wanted to change the sport and help against doping...of course, that all conveniently happened AFTER he retired.

He made is money/reputation somehow intact for whatever reason. He is just as complicit as anybody, if not, more so, due to the fact he rode with Lance every single victory of the TDF.

Ridiculous...not telling everything, doesn't equate to lying. Telling part of the story doesn't make it all better George.

So much he knows but hasn't said.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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good post FGL

but i read, and thought you premised GH telling some truths, but then get to the end of the post, and realised, the only thing he told which had some truth and not manipulated truth was where he could paint himself in the best possible light. They all had their ducks in a line, the Armstrong' supergrasses. 2006 was the arbitrary line in sand. And it just conveniently correlates to Slipstream's entrance and JV's mythology.

Fearless Greg Lemond said:
I quote:

''After Lance retired I began to think about my involvement in doping and that it was time to try to stand up for change in sport. I was tired of doping and I thought if I talked with other riders perhaps I could influence a change in our sport. As I talked with other riders most approved.''

So, actually, Saint George helped cleaning up the sport? Who dissaproved?
And, Saint George was tired of doping but he did use testosterone? Yep, when you limit that till treshold it is no doping of course. UCI/WADA code says bandwith use of testosterone is no doping so Saint Cyclists doesn't think he actually IS doping.

I continue, I quote:

''In 2006 I talked to Ferrari about wanting to use fewer PED's and blood tranfusions. I had some blood extracted but not re - infused. I used some testosterone patches and pills but by the end of 2006 I had stopped using PED's.''

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie,+George+Affidavit.pdf
number 90 and 91

I continue:
http://www.georgehincapie.com/bio/

2006
1st, US Professional Road Race Championship
1st, Stage 2, Tour of California
1st, Stage 5, Tour of California
Stage 2, Tour of California, Leader's Jersey
Stages 2, 5 & 6, Tour of California, Sprinter's Jersey
1st, Sage 4, Eneco Tour of Benelux
Stage 4, 5, Eneco Tour of Benelux, Leader's Jersey
3rd, Tour of Flanders
3rd, Prologue, Tour of California
4th, Overall, Tour of California
4th, Stage 3, Tour of California
5th, Gent-Wevelgem
5th, Stage 1, Tour of California
8th, Tirreno-Adriatico
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=3336
9th, Clasica San Sebastian
Stage 1, Tour de France, Yellow Leader's Jersey
32nd, Tour de France


How many riders have testified they were of the bloodbags and suddenly have one of their best year in their carreer? Age 34 in this case. In 2005 Captain BB becomes 21st in the Tour and has his ridiculous win on Pla d'Adet with the help of his friend the BB and the next year he comes in 32nd in the Tour? Not even mentioning the classics. Captain George also forgot to mention his sudden climbing capabilities ending up tenth at the Dauphinee Libere in his bio, just on testosteron that is. 2006 indeed was a very magic year in cycling.

Little sidenote:
In pre - massive - epo - use years a normal GC at the Dauphinee looked kinda like this
1. Charly MOTTET (Fra) en 33h54'03"
2. Robert Millar (Gbr) à 18"
3. Thierry Claveyrolat (Fra) à 1'50"
4. Fabrice Philippot (Fra) à 2'49"
5. Laurent Bezault (Fra) à 2'56"
6. Martial Gayant (Fra) à 3'58"
7. Eric Caritoux (Fra) à 4'26"
8. Hector Pattaroyo (Col) à 5'10"
9. Mariano Sanchez (Esp) à 6'14"
10. Alberto Camargo (Col) à 7'09"
11. Oscar Vargas (Col) à 7'50"
12. Pascal Simon (Fra) à 9'01"
13. Abelardo Rondon (Col) à 9'30"
14. Carlos Jaramillo (Col) à 9'51"
15. Bernard Richard (Fra) à 11'15"
16. Atle Kvalsvoll (Nor) à 11'57"
17. Jean-Claude Leclercq (Fra) à 13'27"
18. Luc Roosen (Bel) à 13'32"
19. Yves Bonnamour (Fra) à 16'23"
20. Pablo Wilches (Col) à 17'21"
21. Edwig Van Hooydonck (Bel) à 17’58"
22. Jérôme Simon (Fra) à 18’19"
23. Luis Moreno (Col) à 19’47"
24. Fabian Fuchs (Sui) à 20’09"
25. Pascal Lance (Fra) à 20’43"

I dont see any third tier sprinters who turned into classics rider there.

And thus I conclude George is full of George.

George should write a book named ''Grazie mille for my carreer Michele''.

[just check his results pre - Ferrari]

I think it is a good thing guys like these are allowed to train junior cyclists.

End of rant.

:(

[but I do agree with Hrotha on the questionable part]
 
Sep 9, 2010
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Just like Allan Peiper's strategy as an amateur (from his book) - he'd do deals with everyone and sprint anyway. If he won, he'd keep the 1st prize. If he lost, he'd get paid by the 'winner'.

Peiper was not alone in this strategy!
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Stephen_M said:
Just like Allan Peiper's strategy as an amateur (from his book) - he'd do deals with everyone and sprint anyway. If he won, he'd keep the 1st prize. If he lost, he'd get paid by the 'winner'.

Peiper was not alone in this strategy!
Except these are professionals and word will spread. If you win no one will deal with you in the future and may be unwilling to cooperate with you in any way. That pattern actually drives most of GH's decisions throughout his whole career.

Slight digression, I really don't like how Hincapie has comported himself throughout this entire USPS mess and career for that matter. He has played the middle every step of the way has always tried to be neutral. He was an egregious unapologetic doper and tried to provide as little information as possible when the authorities closed in on him. He tried to minimize damage to himself rather than make a difference. Self interest and greed are all that seems to drive his decisions. Others are quick to let him skate and you're entitled to that opinion but he's a coward in my book.

I guess I'd really just like some of these guys to acquire some other marketable skill and contribute something more to society outside of bike racing. Most bike/clothing companies have some blame for sponsoring a corrupt system but something really irks me about GH continuing to cash in on years of deceit. I won't be buying his clothing any time soon.
 
lean said:
..I guess I'd really just like some of these guys to acquire some other marketable skill and contribute something more to society outside of bike racing. Most bike/clothing companies have some blame for sponsoring a corrupt system but something really irks me about GH continuing to cash in on years of deceit. I won't be buying his clothing any time soon.
Why do you hate winners?

The clothing business is funding a development team, so all sins are forgiven. I'm still not sure why Armstrong cannot do the same and get forgiven.

The worst part of all of this is one of Verbruggen's main goals when he was President of the UCI was to end buying/selling races. It's now ridiculously obvious he never fixed that problem. Maybe Hein should sponsor a development team and be forgiven too.
 
DirtyWorks said:
Why do you hate winners?

The clothing business is funding a development team, so all sins are forgiven. I'm still not sure why Armstrong cannot do the same and get forgiven.
Cheating to win bike races is hardly being a winner! Pretty warped logic there. A gutless GH was content to cover up the lie for his buddy LA, until some smart lawyer told him to tell the truth to the US Dept. of Justice. Then and only then did GH come clean.

If George wants to sell clothing and people want to buy it, fine. If he wants a development team and people want to ignore his obvious moral failings, then fine. That is a reflection on their own moral compass as to what kind of "development" these kids may get. But don't paint him as a winner.
 
RobbieCanuck said:
But don't paint him as a winner.
Maybe I should have used something a little easier to detect as sarcasm.


Always remember the goal is to win and never test positive. How one gets the win and never test positive becomes a completely different puzzle to solve once you get creative about it. Big George's career is just one example of creative "winning."
 
DirtyWorks said:
Maybe I should have used something a little easier to detect as sarcasm.


Always remember the goal is to win and never test positive. How one gets the win and never test positive becomes a completely different puzzle to solve once you get creative about it. Big George's career is just one example of creative "winning."
One interesting, comparatively recent development, is a number of prosecutions in the UK, India, & Pak_istan for 'spot fixing', in cricket & soccer !

Cyclists who funk with bookies can now face very serious charges in a number of countries, & what the UCI do is irrelevant if The State decides to take an interest & in this case, The State can be any Country where betting on Cycling is Legal, & there are Professional Cycling events !rr

[Edit] Braindead text filter, grrrr!!
 
DirtyWorks said:
Maybe I should have used something a little easier to detect as sarcasm.


Always remember the goal is to win and never test positive. How one gets the win and never test positive becomes a completely different puzzle to solve once you get creative about it. Big George's career is just one example of creative "winning."
Sorry DW your concept of winning is not part of my lexicon, although I get your point. :)
 
Sep 9, 2010
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I thought I got his point, before the sarcasm?

Winners, are win-at-all-costs kind of people. Winning is everything and any means will justify the end. Whether it's sitting on a wheel for the last 5km, lead-out trains sitting up and boxing-in other riders, buying races, or topping-up your blood levels for a big day. It's all a spectrum of how far someone will go to win.

Psychologists seem to talk about 'mastery' these days, which I think probably defines what we'd call sportsmanship?
 

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