Horner to Skip Tour de Suisse -- Take 2

[ricara]

The CyclingNews article (http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/75th-tour-de-suisse-upt/preview) published on the eve of the start of the Tour de Suisse describes the race:

"With the Tour de France looming larger and larger on the cycling horizon, the Tour de Suisse represents the last major stage race for the overall Tour contenders and sprinters to get an important block of racing in their legs."

The article goes on to note that the competition will be fierce:

"Frank Schleck (Leopard Trek) wears race number one as defending champion but will face some major competition from riders of the calibre of Tejay Van Garderen (HTC-Highroad), Christian Vande Velde and Ryder Hesjedal (Garmin-Cervelo) and Andreas Klöden, Chris Horner, Levi Leipheimer (RadioShack)"

and that:

"Virtually all the big-name sprinters opt for the Tour de Suisse rather than the Critérium du Dauphiné because it helps them hit top form for the opening stages of the Tour de France."

I have read thousands of times that the best training is racing. I have never, ever heard of a rider saying that training for racing was a better way to prepare for racing. But now, two days before the start of the TdS, Horner announces that he doesn't want to ride the TdS, nor does he need to (obsoleting the Radio Shack lineup announced in the CyclingNews article.)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...swiss-tour-takes-a-new-route-to-france_177815

Apparently Horner's big objection to riding the Dauphine or the TdS was that his diet (beetroot juice???) would be impossible to maintain in Europe...

The VN article notes that:

"It is unusual, but not unheard of, for a Tour GC rider to skip both the Criterium du Dauphiné and the Tour of Switzerland. Defending champion Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) passed on both races after winning a demanding Giro d’Italia, though the controversy-embattled Spaniard has not yet committed to racing the Tour."

I can understand Contador wanting to rest after such a demanding Giro, but it's hard for me to understand the need for resting after the ToC. Does Horner really need six weeks of rest with no racing to prepare for the TdF? Does he really feel that that is what is going to put him on the podium as he boasted after winning the ToC?

I made a tongue in cheek post previously that I thought was funny. None of the other posters or other moderators agreed that it was funny. I apologize for that. I suppose that my sense of humor must need some rest. Or some training. Or some racing. Or something...

The point is that Horner's decision to not race at all between the ToC and the TdF raised my eyebrows at least. Doesn't this topic deserve discussion?

(And to the person who accused me of slander by altering Horner's quote, there was a case before the Supreme Court -- New York Times v. Sullivan, 1964 -- that applies a different standard for libel when applied to public figures. One article noted "The Sullivan case was hugely important, better safeguarding the press to challenge, criticize, and satirize elected officials and public figures.")

 

[skippythepinhead]

Even public figures have certain rights, and you should not assume that the rules are the same in every jurisdiction. Certainly your points are potentially valid and this thread ought generate a reasonable discussion, but I can see how the mods would be sensitive to the accusatory nature of putting words into someone's mouth-- you should at least include an "in my opinion, based on x, y, z...

 

[Granville57]

(And to the person who accused me of slander by altering Horner's quote, there was a case before the Supreme Court -- New York Times v. Sullivan, 1964 -- that applies a different standard for libel when applied to public figures. One article noted "The Sullivan case was hugely important, better safeguarding the press to challenge, criticize, and satirize elected officials and public figures.")

Seriously, drop this topic. You seem to be in way over your head.

1) It's libel, not slander.

Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures.
http://www.medialaw.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Public_Resources/Libel_FAQs/Libel_FAQs.htm

2) WTF does the New York Times or the U.S. Supreme court have to do with the legal standards by which CN operates?

Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW
England and Wales company registration number 2008885

As for why Horner may have made this decision:
You obviously haven't been following his narrative over the past couple of weeks. I'll get to that...

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

It is not libel if it is parody..

 

[Maxiton]

As for why Horner may have made this decision:
You obviously haven't been following his narrative over the past couple of weeks. I'll get to that...

Please do. I haven't been following Horner either and I'm curious.

 

[ricara]

It is not libel if it is parody..

That is my understanding of the law (in the US at least). I would hope that the people that are reading this forum would realize that no professional cyclist would ever say what I posted and instantly realize that it was meant to be parody.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Granville57]

For some time now, Horner has credited much of his success to finally getting his diet under control. Whether or not you or I choose to believe that, is certainly a valid point of departure for debate.

But the fact is, that has been his stance on the matter for the past couple years.
Chris Horner says diet his biggest concern heading into Tour de France

Integral to dialing in Horner’s power-to-weight ratio was the diet he and girlfriend Megan Elliott, a two-time under-23 national road champion, devised.

Horner is an athlete with a penchant for hamburgers, candy bars and soda. But together they closely monitored his caloric intake, bringing his weight down from 150 pounds to 140.

Horner said he was less concerned about wrestling team leadership or holding his form than he was over managing his weight in the weeks leading into the Tour. Once in Europe, he said, the ability to control his diet was a much taller obstacle to overcome.

“It’s difficult in Europe,” he said. “Grocery stories aren’t open all day, the restaurants aren’t the same, they don’t serve the same kind of food, the hours they are open are different, and half the time you don’t even know what you’re ordering. I’ll be away from my friends and family, which means I’ll be bored more, and that makes you want to eat. It’s the number-one thing on my mind. As soon as the Amgen Tour finished, the first thing I started thinking was, ‘How am I going to control my diet when I get to Europe?’”

 

[ricara]

Please do. I haven't been following Horner either and I'm curious.

Me, too!

That is why I started this thread. (And the one before it. I thought it was funny, but obviously I was wrong.)

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...swiss-tour-takes-a-new-route-to-france_177815

Apparently Horner's big objection to riding the Dauphine or the TdS was that his diet (beetroot juice???) would be impossible to maintain in Europe...

The VN article notes that:

"It is unusual, but not unheard of, for a Tour GC rider to skip both the Criterium du Dauphiné and the Tour of Switzerland. Defending champion Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) passed on both races after winning a demanding Giro d’Italia, though the controversy-embattled Spaniard has not yet committed to racing the Tour."

I can understand Contador wanting to rest after such a demanding Giro, but it's hard for me to understand the need for resting after the ToC. Does Horner really need six weeks of rest with no racing to prepare for the TdF? Does he really feel that that is what is going to put him on the podium as he boasted after winning the ToC?

The point is that Horner's decision to not race at all between the ToC and the TdF raised my eyebrows at least. Doesn't this topic deserve discussion?

Well, that's an unorthodox preparation schedule for Horner. All because beets and other vegies are not available in Europe? The concoction apparently is a mix of beets and other vegies (http://altmedicine.about.com/od/juicefasting/a/beetroot_juice.htm). I would think he could just get a juicer, buy the vegies, and make his own beet juice. Oh well... too late for that now.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

For some time now, Horner has credited much of his success to finally getting his diet under control. Whether or not you or I choose to believe that, is certainly a valid point of departure for debate.

But the fact is, that has been his stance on the matter for the past couple years.
Chris Horner says diet his biggest concern heading into Tour de France

If he is too dumb to figure out what to order after doing so many many times, maybe he could ship a pallet of Hungry Man dinners to his place in Girona. Or he could learn how to cook a few meals.

 

[Granville57]

That is my understanding of the law (in the US at least). I would hope that the people that are reading this forum would realize that no professional cyclist would ever say what I posted and instantly realize that it was meant to be parody.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Not to drive this point into the ground, but...

It's worth noting that CN is under U.K. jurisdiction, and the U.K. is known for having some of the (if not the most) strictest libel laws on the books.

Britain is the global champion when it comes to libel litigation.
Saturday, 8 January 2011

That is not a title to be proud of. Our exalted position is a consequence of some extraordinarily skewed libel laws. Anyone can be sued in a British court for anything published in any country, provided the defendant can show they have a "reputation" in the UK to be damaged. This has helped to turn London into a hub of libel tourism. It is also threatening to undermine free speech.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-our-libel-laws-have-become-a-threat-to-freedom-of-speech-2179186.html

 

[Boeing]

Ok good read but what was this topic about again? by the end i was looking for Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease

 

[ricara]

For some time now, Horner has credited much of his success to finally getting his diet under control. Whether or not you or I choose to believe that, is certainly a valid point of departure for debate.

Personally, I find this explanation rather implausible. What is your opinion?

I know that some people have trouble with their weight. Ullrich was famous for getting fat in the off season. So what did he do? As far as I know, his favorite weight loss technique was to race.

I was just reading an article about Greg LeMond when he first went to Europe. I think it was the book excerpt that is on the VeloNews website. It said that he was ten pounds overweight because the Renault/Gitane team told him to take it easy over the winter. He was in for a rude awakening when the racing started, but he dropped the weight pretty quickly by (drum roll, please) racing.

I'm open to hearing other people defending Horner's story, but at this point it just seems ludicrous to me.

 

[Granville57]

Just to be clear:

Don't let my previous posts get in the way of a good Chris Horner thread.
I find him to be an endlessly fascinating topic for discussion.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
----------------------------

Is he suspect? Damn straight!
Given his age and his current team (as has been fully covered in The Clinic) there is plenty good reason to question his second-coming, of sorts.

But I can't deny that he comes across as exceptionally likable; his enthusiasm for the sport is contagious; and he gives one of the best post-race debriefings of any cyclist I've ever heard!

So what does that all add up to?
Not much in terms of his credibility. Like I said, I find him endlessly fascinating. I would like to more myself. Much more.

 

[Boeing]

Diet a concern? Dude looks like he's been on a hunger strike since the feds came to town. Mix in a steak Chris for fcuk sake

 

[ricara]

It's worth noting that CN is under U.K. jurisdiction, and the U.K. is known for having some of the (if not the most) strictest libel laws on the books.

I am aware that the UK has different laws. I would assume (and perhaps that is a grievous error) that Horner could sue my bum off in the UK for that post, but somehow I doubt that he will.

The bigger question is whether CN can be held responsible for what non-employees post on a public forum. I don't see how they could be, but I am far from a legal expert, especially concerning UK law. Not to derail the thread topic completely, but if anyone knows the answer to that I would be curious to hear it. Thanks.

 

[Granville57]

Personally, I find this explanation rather implausible. What is your opinion?

I'll restate what I posted several months ago when this topic came up.

The hardest thing for me to wrap my head around was the notion that Horner was giving so much credit to his "resurgence" based two main things:

1) Training with Lance
2) Finally getting his diet under control

I find it very hard to accept that a professional athlete, whose very livelihood and legacy is dependent upon his level of performance, would wait until his late thirties to finally get hold of his eating habits. Since body-weight plays such an important role in the life of an elite cyclist, it is very difficult for me to understand how he could go through all the suffering required of a top pro, but couldn't stay away from the junk food.

Call me crazy.

 

[Berzin]

This is the biggest BS excuse I've ever heard in my life. If after so many years of riding in Europe he can't figure out a way to manage his diet, there is something seriously wrong with him.

I've spent time in developing countries that don't have half the infrastructure that Western European countries have, and it was still possible to prepare balanced, nutritious meals without missing anything I would find at home as far as fruits, vegetables and fresh meat is concerned.

What he's probably doing is storing blood and making sure he doesn't race under those conditions. It would seem as if he's out of shape riding with one or two less units of blood that will be transfused on those Tour rest days.

 

[ricara]

he gives one of the best post-race debriefings of any cyclist I've ever heard!

Was it two years ago that he did the little video spots on VN? I thought those were fabulous. And I agree that he was immensely likable. He seemed like the kind of guy you would want to have over for BBQ and beer at your house.

And like you said, his season this year is shaping up to be very suspicious. In fact it reminds me of what Greg said of Lance ten years ago -- either the greatest comeback of this season or the greatest fraud of this season. (I'm paraphrasing, I hope I won't be sued for that...)

 

[ricara]

This is the biggest BS excuse I've ever heard in my life. If after so many years of riding in Europe he can't figure out a way to manage his diet, there is something seriously wrong with him.

Thank you, Berzin, and well stated. My thoughts exactly.

 

[ansimi]

Just to be clear:

Is he suspect? Damn straight!
Given his age and his current team (as has been fully covered in The Clinic) there is plenty good reason to question his second-coming, of sorts.

But I can't deny that he comes across as exceptionally likable; his enthusiasm for the sport is contagious; and he gives one of the best post-race debriefings of any cyclist I've ever heard!

So what does that all add up to?
Not much in terms of his credibility. Like I said, I find him endlessly fascinating. I would like to more myself. Much more.

I totally agree. I'm naturally drawn to him because he's smiley and super chatty and obviously loves riding his bike. But this story is absurd.

Most athletes try to prepare for the conditions of their big event. Suisse would be a perfect opportunity to practice eating and racing in Europe. If he needs to travel with a juicer and a multilingual soigneur to be able to eat properly then he should really work out that system so he's got it down for the TdF.

Really sounds like a cover story. At least it's a funny one

 

[blackcat]

they have good beetroot juice in Mexico, that is where Horner is off to.

Rasmussen recommends Mexico's beetroot juice and training facilities

 

[Granville57]

Nutrition?!?!?!?
Friday, January 8, 2010

So, I’ve been getting a lot of questions and comments about my diet. In the old days, my diet consisted of pretty much anything and everything I wanted! A couple Cokes, a couple Snickers, breakfast burritos, donuts, Little Debbie Brownies and Swiss Rolls, sandwiches and chips, and fast food for dinner. It was FANTASTIC!!!! And for those of you who are laughing, keep in mind I got over 65 victories on that diet... While other guys were eating pasta, I was happily chowing down on McDonald’s.

The hardest days are the days with no riding, where my calories allowance is reduced to 1500-2000 calories, where in the past I was used to being able to eat at least 3000 – that took some adjustment! On short days (2 hr rides), I take in about 2500-3000 calories for the day now, whereas in the past, I would have eaten at least a 1000 calories more in the form of Snickers, Cokes, Little Debbies, etc. On the long training days, the calorie count is much closer to what I was used to in the past, but with a lot of the bad foods being replaced by healthier alternatives. And thank God for the race day – where the calories are no holds bar and all my favorite foods are back on the table! I still splurge occasionally to get back to my roots, but in general I’d say I have cut down my weight by getting rid of the worst parts of my old diet (the fast food and sugars) and added more fruits (and some veggies). There is also a big mental benefit from going out occasionally and splurging a little with a good burger. Don’t underestimate the power of In-n-Out!!!!

http://www.chrishornerracing.com/articles/2010/1/8/nutrition.html

 

[Granville57]

Not to stray off to my favorite topic of all time, but this does bring to mind one of Floyd's responses when asked about training tips for up-and-coming riders:

"I dunno, eat more cheeseburgers."

 

[Granville57]

But this story is absurd.

Made all the more absurd by the company he keeps:
Lance, Levi, Andreas & Johan.

(They're so cute with just their first names. Would make for bad law firm though.)