Horner Vents!

[aarnold517]

horner's clearly on form right now and i think his form will be on the downturn by the time the tour comes around

would love to see him be the protected rider at the vuelta though. he got the shot a few years ago and crashed out in one of the opening days. but he's done well in spain (notably pais vasco) in the past and i think he could get back up to form in time for the vuelta

 

[Race Radio]

Chris, as usual, is 100% correct.

How is it that USA cycling ignored this guy for years?

 

[patrick767]

You have hit the nail on the head. And the reason he wasn't allowed into that inner circle is that Lance and Chris Carmichael knew as far back as the first Olympic trials Chris competed in that he was naturally better. Much better as were several other riders. They manipulated the Continental pro scene to keep Chris in the back seat as much as possible and that's why he was left to struggle with FdJ.

Look, I love what Horner's accomplishing these days and I hope he wins the ToC, but that's quite a conspiracy theory. Armstrong and his trainer knew that Horner was a better rider than Armstrong, so they conspired to keep him and others out of the top levels? Come on.

 

[Zigster]

Chris was one of those guys that you knew was going to do great things on a bike from the first early days as a teenager, coming out to the local group rides and putting the hurt on much more experienced riders. There is a lot of natural talent there.

do they have his junior palmarès up somewhere?
usacycling.org is an embarrassment in terms of recordkeeping

 

[Oldman]

Look, I love what Horner's accomplishing these days and I hope he wins the ToC, but that's quite a conspiracy theory. Armstrong and his trainer knew that Horner was a better rider than Armstrong, so they conspired to keep him and others out of the top levels? Come on.

The selection process for that Olympics was very well documented. The final riders were "coach's selections" even though Horner was the points qualify and soundly beat the entire cadre of Lance's team in Seattle and, because they wanted a completely supportive group for Lance's/Carmichael's ambitions. It's a known history that few dispute. Carmichael/Gorski/Johnson/Ochowicz/Weisel ran USAC then and their interdependenc was a hugely contentious issue for the membership, also known history. You also have to realize that Motorola was the only big game in town back then for a US based team with Tour aspirations. Chris was left to work with teams in the US until he got his FdJ contract that did not exactly highlight him as a protected rider. That domestique status and access is hugely negative for the development of a preeminent rider where, if you must race on the demand of the DS your schedule can be variable and your results unimportant. They want a donkey and that's what you end up with.
Fast forward to his role at Astana where he was expected to toe the line and display total allegiance and he did so because the pay was good and he might get a shot...finally. That didn't happen to the degree he'd hoped until Conta and Tex were out of the picture.
So, no conspiracy; it was history.

 

[Hitchey]

Look, I love what Horner's accomplishing these days and I hope he wins the ToC, but that's quite a conspiracy theory. Armstrong and his trainer knew that Horner was a better rider than Armstrong, so they conspired to keep him and others out of the top levels? Come on.

That's exactly the case, though not necessarily because he was better than LA. Chris and Floyd have one particular trait that they share, and that is that Chris has historically been brutally honest with calling out what he sees. That has not done him any favors with the "good ole boys" in the past. It is no conspiracy theory, it's a fact. There have been other guys in the "club" that have conspired to throw him under the bus during those years and that has contributed to him not getting onto postal or discovery.

In my opinion and in hindsight, I think it has been a blessing to him that he did not have those opportunities. He has been steadfast in his resistance to getting on the program throughout the years and I'm not so sure the big money that would have come with postal and discovery would not have swayed him off his course. He has been chronically underpaid throughout the years.

You can thank Michael Ball for being the less than forthright guy he has shown himself to be for the reason we are seeing Horner do what he is doing now. Without naming names, after the year that Chris rode with Lotto last and carried bottles and cared for Cadel during the tour, Lotto actually offered Chris a contract for the following year that was about 10% less than he was making. Chris being who he is, basically decided that it was an insult to re-sign considering the quality of his riding and work for Cadel. He had a contract in his hand and was ready to sign as there were no other opportunities at that moment, to actually ride for Rock for far less money than ride for Lotto just because he would not have felt dignified to submit to the insult. That brings us to Ball and his dishonesty. The rock deal fell through as Chris refused to sign based on the terms. Then came the call from Bruyneel and Astana.

OLDMAN, good note about the olympics, I forgot all about that debacle. He got screwed out of that one. I remember hearing the story at the time. Can you say "good ole boys club"?

Ever wonder why great riders such as Tony Cruz, Ryder Hesjedal, Michael Creed, had very short stints at the "club"? There actually have been many quality riders that have beat to their own drum beat. Not EVERYONE takes peds. As I've mentioned already, we all know what a breakout year Ryder had last year. He rides like a normal person might be perceived to ride like, as in just simply human with ups and downs. Tony Cruz? A really super nice and tip top guy. Someone that would have quite the different palmares had he not resisted. Lots of people have been truly cheated out of success due to the "club". It's something we should all care about.



Here's a good read from and interview back in 2007 with Horner:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front -- and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

"When I was with Mercury we were the number one team -- the best riders on the best team in the States. We go into a race like Redlands and have seven guys on the road race, the Sunset Loop. I'm finishing there with two team-mates and they have one foot in the grave! I'm riding the front to get them over the last climb so they can help me down the descent.

"That is an 85 mile race, so you are telling me that a 150 mile race over four mountain passes you can finish with 7-8 guys on the last climb? I don't believe it to be possible. Even with Rasmussen's team, and he had a lot of questions about him, he was arriving with only two guys on the front and one would get dropped on the final climb. That's what I mean by a change."

 

[Oldman]

That's exactly the case, though not necessarily because he was better than LA. Chris and Floyd have one particular trait that they share, and that is that Chris has historically been brutally honest with calling out what he sees. That has not done him any favors with the "good ole boys" in the past. It is no conspiracy theory, it's a fact. There have been other guys in the "club" that have conspired to throw him under the bus during those years and that has contributed to him not getting onto postal or discovery.

In my opinion and in hindsight, I think it has been a blessing to him that he did not have those opportunities. He has been steadfast in his resistance to getting on the program throughout the years and I'm not so sure the big money that would have come with postal and discovery would not have swayed him off his course. He has been chronically underpaid throughout the years.

You can thank Michael Ball for being the less than forthright guy he has shown himself to be for the reason we are seeing Horner do what he is doing now. Without naming names, after the year that Chris rode with Lotto last and carried bottles and cared for Cadel during the tour, Lotto actually offered Chris a contract for the following year that was about 10% less than he was making. Chris being who he is, basically decided that it was an insult to re-sign considering the quality of his riding and work for Cadel. He had a contract in his hand and was ready to sign as there were no other opportunities at that moment, to actually ride for Rock for far less money than ride for Lotto just because he would not have felt dignified to submit to the insult. That brings us to Ball and his dishonesty. The rock deal fell through as Chris refused to sign based on the terms. Then came the call from Bruyneel and Astana.

OLDMAN, good note about the olympics, I forgot all about that debacle. He got screwed out of that one. I remember hearing the story at the time. Can you say "good ole boys club"?

Ever wonder why great riders such as Tony Cruz, Ryder Hesjedal, Michael Creed, had very short stints at the "club"? There actually have been many quality riders that have beat to their own drum beat. Not EVERYONE takes peds. As I've mentioned already, we all know what a breakout year Ryder had last year. He rides like a normal person might be perceived to ride like, as in just simply human with ups and downs. Tony Cruz? A really super nice and tip top guy. Someone that would have quite the different palmares had he not resisted. Lots of people have been truly cheated out of success due to the "club". It's something we should all care about.



Here's a good read from and interview back in 2007 with Horner:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front -- and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

"When I was with Mercury we were the number one team -- the best riders on the best team in the States. We go into a race like Redlands and have seven guys on the road race, the Sunset Loop. I'm finishing there with two team-mates and they have one foot in the grave! I'm riding the front to get them over the last climb so they can help me down the descent.

"That is an 85 mile race, so you are telling me that a 150 mile race over four mountain passes you can finish with 7-8 guys on the last climb? I don't believe it to be possible. Even with Rasmussen's team, and he had a lot of questions about him, he was arriving with only two guys on the front and one would get dropped on the final climb. That's what I mean by a change."

Add Danny Pate, Roy Knickman and others to the honor roll. As for Chris being better than LA or not; for that Olympics he would have been better in the eyes of LA and Carmichael. What you and I project today isn't relevant but their behavior spoke volumes about their aspirations to a cycling franchise. They didn't invent it as the Euro teams at the time seldom had any conflict over leadership.
It may prove to be a blessing that he wasn't in that critical mix. He maintained a very low profile this winter and obviously concentrated on his form rather than getting dragged into Lance's business.