Hour Record Rules Revisted/Revised

[nslckevin]

Dekker is not on a pro-tour team so his attempt is apparently not important in the eyes of the UCI.

I would love to see his attempt and also that of Molly.

Molly's husband Rob posted the full hour on YouTube.

Molly's Hour

 

[TShame]

This puts Dekker's first 30 at 52.64, then 51.80 for his second half.

Note the clock difference. I knew the clock was off from the start. It started thirty seconds late and here was over 4 minutes slower.
25:01 is really 29:55. Maybe it was the altitude.

 

[TShame]

found the Molly hour ride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CW3fdoshk

She did start by aiming at a pace just above 46, 46.15 kph early on.
However, her 1:18 kilometer pace slowed to about 1:20. She fell short of the world record by only thirty seconds, so jolly good ride. Her lines were pretty tight, especially in the beginning. I did think the gear was obviously too large for her. Her cadence appeared around 85. It was hard to judge, just an initial observation.

Waiting for Saturday's attempt, which the UCI has promised to show.

 

[avanti]

............................
Waiting for Saturday's attempt, which the UCI has promised to show.

Also Alex Dowset is attempting the hour on Friday (2/27) in London. Anyone know if streaming will be available? Update: After a lot of searching it appears that Dowset has postponed his attempt because of his January collar bone operation.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Good for her. I wonder if she went out for the 46 or just did what she could. I was pretty close with her max being 46 from her 44.17 ride.

One thing no one mentioned before, in the examples of Dekker and to a small extent Rohan and Brandle, is that a good portion of the falling power in the last 15 minutes or so can be attributed to dehydration. Thus, even experienced time trialists who finish strong often find their bodies rebelling. Reminds me of Armstrong's awful time trial in the heat of France, his lips draped in dried spit and down several kilos in weight.

I've mentioned this before, especially in light of the heater nonsense at DISC for Bobridge's attempt, just not here.

In Molly's case time of day was chosen to provide likely optimal combination of lower air density for reduced air resistance and temperature not too high to avoid power degradation. Hydration is also an issue at altitude.

 

[TShame]

Dowsett cancelled awhile ago. His crash and injury was headlined here. I listed the Sarah Storey attempt previously. It's part of the revolution series or at least piggy-backed.

Molly's effort had to be after Dekker's. I usually do my best efforts at 4:00 pm.

It was nice of them to sand the inner lane. It looked brand new.

 

[TShame]

Sarah goes at 3 pm or 10 EST according to The Guardian article.

 

[avanti]

Sarah goes at 3 pm or 10 EST according to The Guardian article.

I think that should be BST and not EST

Here is the program for Saturday's races
http://www.cyclingrevolution.com/round-5/race-programme.html
Sarah's ride is scheduled between 1300 and 1615 BST (0800 to 1115 EST)

The UCI site says it is broadcast live at 3 pm BST http://www.uci.ch/

 

[Morbius]

UCI says 3pm GMT. Is that the same as 10am EST?

UK is on GMT now - BST is British Summer Time

 

[TShame]

3 pm, like I said, which is 10 am EST. (US).

You can Google what time in London corresponds to your local time.
Or just watch the replay on Youtube.

 

[UncleChainwhip]

Blackened Dekker, nice try. RPM wasn't bad @ 99, but wasn't going to be any record with air temperature of 88 degrees F. My grandma could hold a better line than that. Gotta love how the sparse crowd of under 200 cheered whenever he steered above the red line. Modern day tragedy, the ride AND the Eurosport commentary. Cochise Rodriguez should have been there?...

 

[avanti]

UCI says 3pm GMT. Is that the same as 10am EST?

UK is on GMT now - BST is British Summer Time

Yes to your question.

My error on BST - long time since I lived in the UK - I was thinking British Standard Time (???) rather than GMT.

 

[TShame]

"RPM wasn't bad @ 99,"
Was it? I wasn't counting, but yes indeed it does seem he averaged 100 rpm. I thought the gear was going to be a bit big for him 58 x 14.
His coach wanted him to use a 56 x 14 at 103 rpm.

88 degrees sounds perfect, even hot if that is what is was. (The clock didn't work. Are you sure the thermometer was working? How much hotter do you think it should be? 97 like Athens?)

While some track riders make holding the line look easy. It is pretty difficult with a front disc. None of the frames used were designed for front disc wheels as they are using time trial frames. The 24" front disc was much easier to handle. I noticed even the russian woman who won the 500 tt didn't use aero extensions. It's hard to let go of the bars at top speed with a disc and then steer with them on close-set aero extensions.

The sad part is Dekker could have beat the record, maybe on steering alone. But I'm glad the record is still with the sea level numbers. If Martin beats Wiggins, I want him to do it at sea level. Goodness, what will his gear be?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It was probably a bit too hot, Molly's husband confirmed that for us.

It was too hot for her even though it was later on - we'd hoped it would cool down a bit by then. Altitude + heat = dehydration = loss of power and form.

 

[UncleChainwhip]

A BIT hot? Have you ever done a TT over 20km long in 60 versus 80 degrees? Cooler is way faster, modern anorexic types CAN dissipate heat better though….. I'm no exercise physio, but there aren't going to be ANY world hour records at that temperature. Obree position being the exception, higher rpm allows the rider lower lactate/easier lap time modulation/less vector for steering loss.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

A BIT hot? Have you ever done a TT over 20km long in 60 versus 80 degrees? Cooler is way faster, modern anorexic types CAN dissipate heat better though?.. I'm no exercise physio, but there aren't going to be ANY world hour records at that temperature. Obree position being the exception, higher rpm allows the rider lower lactate/easier lap time modulation/less vector for steering loss.

I live in Australia, I have some idea about hot riding. I've also coached several world hour records, as well as many TT champs, so have some idea about those too.

Hottest long TT I've personally done was at 101F.
Hottest pursuit I've done was at 106F.
I've also done long TTs in the tropics.

But I've no idea what my personal experience of riding in heat has to do with anything.

One of my clients set a men's masters world hour record (40-44) at 97F. He lost ~ 15W but the reduced air density helped make up for some of that power loss.

Cooler temps help with power output for sure, but it also increases air density and that means more power is required to ride at same speed.

At 79F higher air density means at same speed he'd have needed another 11W. So yes, he'd have been quicker if it were cooler, but only by about 4W worth.


Like altitude, there is a trade off between the physical benefit of higher temperature which lowers air density, and the loss of power with gradual build up of core temp / lower heat dissipation.

What's optimal depends on the individual rider, and their level of acclimation to heat.

 

[UncleChainwhip]

Empirically very complex..... air temperature vs solid body cooling, rider muscle/body diameter, density of temperature with variable of altitude, humidity variable with/without altitude, power output with temperature variable over 60 minutes, rider hydration level at start, rider glycogen level at start, vasoconstriction of peripheral circulation, specific warm-up, tailored rider prep---a HUGE factor.

Subjectively, heat slows endurance component, blood in the integument means heart, lungs and muscles are getting much less, tires and track surface are stickier, head under helmet in heat--major problem, my observation has seen reduced speeds in 60' efforts in the heat--not just climbing, think gastric blood diversion--you wouldn't go swimming right after a large meal.

Where's Coggan, Keen or Le Breton when we need an answer?
What's the optimum water temperature for a 60' freestyle record?
Any Aussie should be able to answer that one.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Empirically very complex..... air temperature vs solid body cooling, rider muscle/body diameter, density of temperature with variable of altitude, humidity variable with/without altitude, power output with temperature variable over 60 minutes, rider hydration level at start, rider glycogen level at start, vasoconstriction of peripheral circulation, specific warm-up, tailored rider prep---a HUGE factor.

Subjectively, heat slows endurance component, blood in the integument means heart, lungs and muscles are getting much less, tires and track surface are stickier, head under helmet in heat--major problem, my observation has seen reduced speeds in 60' efforts in the heat--not just climbing, think gastric blood diversion--you wouldn't go swimming right after a large meal.

Where's Coggan, Keen or Le Breton when we need an answer?
What's the optimum water temperature for a 60' freestyle record?
Any Aussie should be able to answer that one.

Empirically not that hard. That's what power meters and ride diaries are for. Races and tests of performance in a variety of conditions and you soon learn your own individual response to the heat, and can track your adaptation. It's called doing some specific training.

 

[Le breton]

Believe me Uncle, I would trust Alex before myself on such track issues

 

[TShame]

45.502 (Molly just did 45.637 but went unmentioned)
Nice to see her last ten minutes came back up.
This shows how tough this effort is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tgGIb24Hk



Who suggested 60 degrees? Never be a record in that cold air. Warm is great. Warm and dry is much better than warm and humid. Trust me, I know.

 

[UncleChainwhip]

What of the British legend of ideal conditions being just after a rain with the road still a bit wet? That is low atmospheric pressure and 100% humidity. Any truth to this aged axiom?

Speaking of Mexican holidays, anyone got any data on Eros Poli's 1986 post-Worlds attempt on the amateur Hour Record? Do know it cost Cinelli more than $100,000 dollars back in the day! Check the bike porn…..http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hp...15/10808701_1550502251829659_1214611751_n.jpg


How about info on H.H. Orsted heading to Mexico for his Hour attempt after getting spanked by T.Doyle at the '86 world pursuit? Heard he was turning the necessary splits, then crashed and broke his hand during a training run……...Gimme some love, those were heady days!

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

What of the British legend of ideal conditions being just after a rain with the road still a bit wet? That is low atmospheric pressure and 100% humidity. Any truth to this aged axiom?

Summer storm cells bring low barometric pressure with warmish air = lower air density = more speed for same power. If wind is benign, then it's fast conditions.

As for increased humidity - it has two effects - physical through slight lowering of air density, and physiological in how it affects a rider's ability to dissipate heat as sweat doesn't evaporate so easily and so cooling is compromised.

The latter is more important as the ambient temperature rises.

While more humid air is less dense (and hence quicker at same power), the changes in air density due to humidity alone is very small, much less than for typical changes in barometric pressure, temperature or altitude.

e.g. 100% humid air is 1.3% less dense than air at 0% humidity. Since 0% is pretty rare, the effect of humidity variations on air density is relatively small in comparison to temperature, barometric pressure and altitude.

That full spectrum of humidity change on air density is equivalent to:
- Temperature change of 3 degrees Celsius (that's a ~0.6% change in absolute temperature)
- Barometric pressure change of 22hPa (e.g. from 1010 to 1022 hPa)
- Altitude change of 100 metres

 

[UncleChainwhip]

Thx Al, for info and quick reply. Any benefit in rolling resistance with wet road? This sounds like an 'old wives tale".

Thx, Le Breton, for your comments. I respect your input/experience as I feel you are even older than I am. 56yr

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Any benefit in rolling resistance with wet road?

I don't think there is any reliable data to say one way or another.

 

[TShame]

It doesn't rain in a velodrome! Nobody is going to try to set the hour record in the rain!!! Want to know if 'road racing' is faster in the rain, go out for a ride. Ridiculous question, as was the 60 degrees is faster than 80. Five world records in Athens 90 plus weather. The other two were set in Atlanta with 90 plus temperatures. They turned up the heat in Paris to help set records.

High humidity (90 -99) is not faster. You take in slightly less oxygen, but mostly your skin doesn't stay as cool because sweat won't evaporate as quickly.

Let's not worry about petty details. How big is the engine? How much training was done to prepare and set the pace? These are essential elements.

Sarah couldn't maintain her pace for more than twenty minutes, which may signify that she never ran her pace for thirty minutes. Probably never ran an hour at 44 either, which would have been an invaluable tool in pacing and endurance.

It may be a long time before the next attempt.

As to Poli, I don't think he ever rode that bike. Funny, that someone claimed to own the pedals from that bike and sold them last month for 800 euro.