how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[karlboss]

This tour he'll not win a MTF, TT, or flat sprint that Greipel or Cav take part in.

Will that do?

Benotti
Tour stage = monument, seriously?
cq ranking points tell the truth of that, 80 vs 275. Now you can claim they are just points, but they are based on prestige.
UCI points 20 vs 100.

I shall eat humble pie on this one, luck went Sagan's way, but Greipel was there and Sagan won.

 

[Ozzie2]

bulls*it

bulls*it

bulls*it

No one is THAT good

edit: and the p*ss poor excuses for how he won "injured, blood, chain" oh wake up to yourselves

there were 50 other highly talented riders out there too

this is amazing. what do they call it? cognitive dissidence?

the post saying he dopes get over it is correct

problem then becomes to stupid tom cruise meets ricco ricci celebrations on the back of floyd landis performance

just check the acceleration he had to go over the top of griepel

so griepel and goss are injured hacks

they STILL manage to get to 2 and 3, and over the top of everyone else, but yeah, they weren't good today, wasn't that hard a stage for Sagan to win

this is actually a genuine question- do we think that all other riders are just there to make up the numbers? as in aside from 4 sprinters and 6 GC contenders, all others in the tour are just grunters for them?

 

[Ney the Viking]

But griepel lost his leadout wheel what 2-300 meters out!and the people behind sagan got cought in the chain-break while he narrowly escaped. Greipel had no speed at all in the last 50 meters, and goss was like 2 bikelengths behind Sagan when Sagan begun his sprint. This is one 1 part lucky and 1 part being there at the right time. Goss and JJ should be slightly ashamed of themselves for being so crappy placed in a sprint where only goss and greipel got any kind of a train train.

 

[Caruut]

bulls*it

bulls*it

bulls*it

No one is THAT good

Bitter because Goss had his behind handed to him?

 

[Ozzie2]

I shall eat humble pie on this one, luck went Sagan's way, but Greipel was there and Sagan won.

luck? as in a magic good luck fairy fell off his wings and landed on sagans shoes and pedalled for him sufficient to see him GO OVER THE TOP of some of the best sprinters in the world like they weren't even there?

I think some of us need a reality check here and we need to accept that blackcat was onto something 5 pages and 2 months ago

this is going to end in tears

 

[roundabout]

Bitter because Goss had his behind handed to him?

Or because the guy who is probably the fastest in uphill sprints can easily beat a second tier sprinter in good form in a flat sprint.

But this was just one stage. No need to go fully defensive.

Yet.

 

[Ozzie2]

Bitter because Goss had his behind handed to him?

i absolutely wont deny i'd like a OGE rider to win, and that be goss or gerrans

but i also like the sport enough to respect it, and i felt sadder for the sport seeing him go over the top like that, and yes, then personally p*ssed off when he did the monkey dance, i felt insulted

sagan may be a better rider

i have said he still has to pedal and be there, and these guys are the best of the best

but unless you have the HTC train, you just dont win like that

this is the guy winning the 100m sprint by 4 metres

it_just_doesn't_happen_naturally

i also expect the goss, gerrans, cadel and the lot dope or indulge too. i accept the human body cannot do what we ask of them for 3 weeks without shutting down unless it is tuned in a special way

i am actually more p*ssed at the way he is mocking us now with his celebrations- because its not (just) "his own" effort getting him over the line

show some respect to the guys behind you please

 

[saganftw]

i like that fight between "omg nobody is that good,must be doping" and "greipel was banged,cav was not there,chain snapped,goss out of form"

really entertaining

 

[Ozzie2]

i like that fight between "omg nobody is that good,must be doping" and "greipel was banged,cav was not there,chain snapped,goss out of form"

really entertaining

Sooo, there were only 4 people in today's Stage?

 

[Muriel]

Personally, I'm still on the fence. Inclined to believe he's clean and talented but I'm open to persuasion. I don't think today moved me either one way or the other. Sagan was probably at max to beat who? A crocked Griepal, an absent Cavendish and Goss just disappeared. Ask me again in a week's time.

 

[Ozzie2]

Personally, I'm still on the fence. Inclined to believe he's clean and talented but I'm open to persuasion. I don't think today moved me either one way or the other. Sagan was probably at max to beat who? A crocked Griepal, an absent Cavendish and Goss just disappeared. Ask me again in a week's time.

confirmed!!!

There are only 4 cyclists capable of winning a flat stage in the TdF

 

[hiero2]

Well, hiero...

...I don't think anyone misread.

Eep. I see why folks are reading it that way now - right. Oy. I didn't read it that way, but I can see why others do.

Anyway, it saddens me. I think Joe is probably right, and it is unfortunate. Especially after today. Others are saying, 'well the lead out was terrible' or 'they were all hurt' - but you had the best guys in the world up there in the front. Proven riders. And he just goes zipping by.

Merckx didn't start performing at GTs like this for another year - when he was 23. Although he did win the World Champs jersey at 22, and Milan-San Remo. Not the juniors - the big enchilada.

Somebody else asks why suspect Sagan and not Cav? Cav pulled off good wins, and promptly thanked his team, giving them the credit. I didn't really see what he was doing as miraculous. Somehow Sagan's salutes do seem arrogant to me - and I never liked the pistol either. Same reason. In Sagan, I don't see the respect for the other riders. The only rider whom Cav has been that disrespectful of was Greipel - and we obviously have a personality clash there.

Anyway, I hope he gets caught sooner, not later.

 

[Havetts]

So there were 5 guys riding the sprint:

1. Henderson who went too fast on the leadout and went himself, cooked.
2. Boeckmans, who's chain snapped
3. Greipel who fell 3 times this stage, had his shoulder put in the normal way again, had to close gaps to Henderson and injured.
4. Goss who completely screwed up.
5. Sagan

Is it so strange Sagan wins when he normally comes around 5th place?

wait.. HE MUST DOPE HE WINS STAGES IN THE HILLS AND FLAT SPRINTS WHERE EVERYONE IS STRUCK BY BAD LUCK OR ****S UP! DOPE I SAY!

 

[hiero2]

So there were 5 guys riding the sprint:

1. Henderson who went too fast on the leadout and went himself, cooked.
2. Boeckmans, who's chain snapped
3. Greipel who fell 3 times this stage, had his shoulder put in the normal way again, had to close gaps to Henderson and injured.
4. Goss who completely screwed up.
5. Sagan

Is it so strange Sagan wins when he normally comes around 5th place?

wait.. HE MUST DOPE HE WINS STAGES IN THE HILLS AND FLAT SPRINTS WHERE EVERYONE IS STRUCK BY BAD LUCK OR ****S UP! DOPE I SAY!

Danilo doesn't fit into your category of people who count? JJ Haedo either? And Goss gets dismissed with a "completely screwed up?"

 

[Caruut]

If he wins a sprint against Greipel and Cavendish, where both are reasonably positioned, have sufficient team help and aren't injured, then I will start to doubt him. Likewise, if he's present at the sharp end of high mountain stages (from the bunch, not from a break) or wins a long TT, then I will start to doubt.

Sagan is essentially one of the top "explosive riders", with a perfect gradient somewhere between Cav and Gilbert, and far below Purito. With that in mind, I don't think it implausible that he beats a somewhat depleted field. Goss also didn't have a proper leadout in the end - chasing alone for 25km took it out of the OGRE boys.

I would like to add, though, that I generally assume all pros are on a bit here or there. What I disagree with is the immediate assumption that Sagan's wins are due to excessive doping.

 

[Havetts]

Danilo doesn't fit into your category of people who count? JJ Haedo either? And Goss gets dismissed with a "completely screwed up?"

Todays stage im talking about. None but those 5 were in contention after the final corner.

 

[roundabout]

We'll have to test this theory in a week, unless there would be more crashes or sprinters going home prior to stage 13.

 

[roundabout]

If he wins a sprint against Greipel and Cavendish, where both are reasonably positioned, have sufficient team help and aren't injured, then I will start to doubt him. Likewise, if he's present at the sharp end of high mountain stages (from the bunch, not from a break) or wins a long TT, then I will start to doubt.

Sagan is essentially one of the top "explosive riders", with a perfect gradient somewhere between Cav and Gilbert, and far below Purito. With that in mind, I don't think it implausible that he beats a somewhat depleted field. Goss also didn't have a proper leadout in the end - chasing alone for 25km took it out of the OGRE boys.

I would like to add, though, that I generally assume all pros are on a bit here or there. What I disagree with is the immediate assumption that Sagan's wins are due to excessive doping.

This argument reminds of what was said about Gilbert last year.

Of course a Hincapie or Jalabert like transformation would be taking the ****, but being prepared to the point of winning 75% of the time in the specialty finishes and slightly beyond those instead of 33% is also a potential sign of doping.

Numbers used arbitrarily.

 

[Muriel]

confirmed!!!

There are only 4 cyclists capable of winning a flat stage in the TdF

Congratulations for the correct interpretation of my post. You've convinced me. Sagan must dope because.... um, why exactly? Because he's capable of winning a flat stage in the TdF? Well damn me, I thought that was a role of a sprinter.

Maybe I'll end up agreeing, maybe I won't. For the moment though, I'll reserve judgement.

 

[Caruut]

Well in the uphills, his real speciality, he has won 100%. Those were two stages tailored to him or Gilbert - Gilbert is on horrible form, and so Sagan takes it. On the flats it's 33% - good but today just doesn't prove he has it in him to beat Cav and Greipel on a normal day.

 

[roundabout]

Well, there is winning and then there is winning with 2 fingers in his nose like he did on Sunday and Tuesday.

Of course the stock reaction is that competition isn't really good and he is the only "speacilist" in form. Maybe it's true, but it's also close to venturing into self supporting argument territory.

 

[Caruut]

Yes, I suppose there is a self-defeating element to it, but; Cavendish was undeniably not there and Greipel had undeniably taken a beating during the stage. They are the two premier flat sprinters right now.

What I think is slightly unfair is that if Goss (a rider with more ability in the climbs but less in the sprint than Cav and Greipel) were to win a flat stage, it's not going to get called out too much.

I would point out that I am not saying he is not doping, nor even that he is not doping excessively (and that is why he is winning). I am saying that I don't believe that what we have seen so far is sufficient to believe that he's doping excessively. Whether the entire field has blood like treacle or they won't even eat caffeine gels, someone is still the best.

 

[c&cfan]

pathetic posts.

he is 22 and faster than cav (best sprinter ever) at that age. if he does not beat them (in the future) something is wrong. he has the speed, skills and talent.

yeah, let's dope this random (he isn't random, by the way.. great victories since junior) slovakian guy and give him dr*gs that nobody else can get.

do you guys really believe that? please.. pathetic, there's no other word.

he isn't a juicer-class like merckx or armstrong was... the true criminals. with 99% of certainty, sagan isn't doing nothing wrong.. if he dopes?obviously.. like cav, greipel, tom, menchov, andy, alberto, etc do, but less than ronaldo, phelps, bolt, lance, merckx, indurain etc.

he has everything to be the fastest sprinter and best rider.. just give him a few seasons. Cannot wait for another kelly or what valverde could've been..

 

[Tom T.]

If he's with or within a minute of the first group at the finish tomorrow then I will have real doubts.

 

[ChrisE]

Well in the uphills, his real speciality, he has won 100%. Those were two stages tailored to him or Gilbert - Gilbert is on horrible form, and so Sagan takes it. On the flats it's 33% - good but today just doesn't prove he has it in him to beat Cav and Greipel on a normal day.

That sure must have been one bad *** toothache.