how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

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kingjr

Sep 9, 2012
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You are exaggerating. In a regular flat stage without tough weather conditions 9 out of 10 times he doesnt stand a chance against the likes of Cavendish or Greipel in a bunch sprint. Same goes for the climbs, on your usual HC final climb in a Grand Tour he has zero chance against the climbers, neither in the TT's except for maybe short prologues.
And it's not exactly like he came out of nowhere, he was recognised as a huge talent 5 years ago already.
Doping or not, there will always be exceptional riders who stand out.
 
S

saganftw

May 21, 2010
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THISGONBGUD.gif
 
Samson777

Samson777

Mar 12, 2013
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kingjr said:
You are exaggerating. In a regular flat stage without tough weather conditions 9 out of 10 times he doesnt stand a chance against the likes of Cavendish or Greipel in a bunch sprint. Same goes for the climbs, on your usual HC final climb in a Grand Tour he has zero chance against the climbers, neither in the TT's except for maybe short prologues.
And it's not exactly like he came out of nowhere, he was recognised as a huge talent 5 years ago already.
Doping or not, there will always be exceptional riders who stand out.
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Of course, if Sagan would also have been a superstar in a "clean" race, I don't know. It is possible, it is also possible that he was already doped 5 years ago, and that was the reason that he was a huge "talent"..

Anyway, Sagans doctor was also Pantanis doctor, and in a race with dopers, there is no way Sagan can be going like this without doping. Talent, or no talent..

Today was crazy, in his group he should be the fastest, and even then, he don't need to take the "chance".. If Sagans Is competing on bread and water, he is probably the biggest talent in the history of cycling.
 
Zweistein

Zweistein

Jul 15, 2010
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Mishrak said:
Good enough to beat the best sprinter in the sport AND some of the best climbers in the sport in the same race? That's a bit too good if you ask me. Wins Green Jersey in the TDF, also climbs 27% gradients with pure climbers. I'm just going to operate under the assumption that he's doped to the gills.
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You are in left field on too much stuff. He hasn't won a real field sprint against Cav. Cav was too far out of position to overtake Sagan. Canc, Boonen, and Valverde are all fast but even they can only beat Cav if he is way out of position. He wore the white jersey but he never won it. Also, winning the green jersey doesn't necessarily mean you are the fastest. Sagan collected a lot of points at intermediate sprints that the other sprinters weren't in position to contest. Look at the tdf last year and you'll see that he never won a stage when it was a sprint with elite sprinters. Stuart O'Grady almost one the green jersey a bunch of times by doing the same thing and he never was close to as fast as Cipo or Zabel. Also, short steep climbs are usually not the forte of pure climbers. Short steep climbs are for punchy riders. Even at that, Sagan hasn't done anything crazy like doped up Hincapie winning a tdf mountain stage.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Zweistein said:
You are in left field on too much stuff. He hasn't won a real field sprint against Cav. Cav was too far out of position to overtake Sagan. Canc, Boonen, and Valverde are all fast but even they can only beat Cav if he is way out of position. He wore the white jersey but he never won it. Also, winning the green jersey doesn't necessarily mean you are the fastest. Sagan collected a lot of points at intermediate sprints that the other sprinters weren't in position to contest. Look at the tdf last year and you'll see that he never won a stage when it was a sprint with elite sprinters. Stuart O'Grady almost one the green jersey a bunch of times by doing the same thing and he never was close to as fast as Cipo or Zabel. Also, short steep climbs are usually not the forte of pure climbers. Short steep climbs are for punchy riders. Even at that, Sagan hasn't done anything crazy like doped up Hincapie winning a tdf mountain stage.
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and when the road tilts to a cat2 percent, he starts hanging on. ask tyler farrar how he feels when cav beats him into second place and wins the chocolates

bit harsh to compare the sprinter of the last three decades and expect sagan to beat him too.
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
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Nah, if you only beat Cav 10% of the time and Greipel 40% of the time (and everyone else 75% of the time) you're poor.
 
F

function

Mar 22, 2011
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Mishrak said:
Good enough to beat the best sprinter in the sport AND some of the best climbers in the sport in the same race? That's a bit too good if you ask me. Wins Green Jersey in the TDF, also climbs 27% gradients with pure climbers. I'm just going to operate under the assumption that he's doped to the gills.
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He may be doped to the gills, but what i noted about Stage 6 of T-A was that Nibali wasn't interested in the stage but needed the manpower to gain extra time. If you look earlier in the stage he was weaving all over the road to get up the steep pitches. Here is a shot just as he's about to cut across the rear wheel of the Sky rider.

http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2013/tirreno-adriatico/photos/stage-06/215-PIC350624302.jpg
 
Descender

Descender

Aug 29, 2010
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Lemme bump dis.

I don't know if this has been talked about before here. If it has, I haven't seen it.


Sagan was spotted in Madrid shortly after Flanders.

2i8fwg8.png



Now we find a comment on a well-known Spanish blog where a person claims to have seen Sagan leaving Johann Bruyneel's house (or at least former house) in San Sebastian de los Reyes, a town on the outskirts of Madrid.
 
M

maltiv

Oct 23, 2009
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Descender said:
Now we find a comment on a well-known Spanish blog where a person claims to have seen Sagan leaving Johann Bruyneel's house (or at least former house) in San Sebastian de los Reyes, a town on the outskirts of Madrid.
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Auch.

I don't think anyone believes in Sagan anyway. He doesn't exactly strike me as the anti-doping kind of guy. In fact, I don't think he cares about any rules at all. He reminds me a bit of Riccó in that sense. It's only a question of time before he gets too reckless and is caught.
 
happychappy

happychappy

Apr 19, 2010
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maltiv said:
Auch.

I don't think anyone believes in Sagan anyway. He doesn't exactly strike me as the anti-doping kind of guy. In fact, I don't think he cares about any rules at all. He reminds me a bit of Riccó in that sense. It's only a question of time before he gets too reckless and is caught.
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His podium antics show just how much of a dream world he's living in, clearly thinks he's the center of the universe and completely untouchable.
Maybe he'll get signed by BMC and be asked to tone it right down like Evens and Gilbert. Or he'll get signed by Sky and literally start taking off at the top of mountains and outsprinting Cav while pulling wheelies.
 
hiero2

hiero2

Jul 10, 2010
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Descender said:
Lemme bump dis.
. . .
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I'm glad you did. If Sagan proves clean, he is on course to be another Merckx. Maybe he's for real - but the whole of eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet has been "up for sale". Meaning I think it quite likely if he wanted assistance, even as a teen, he could get it more easily than I could in the US.

I'm just hoping we can get the UCI sorted so we have some sort of reliable, believable testing regimes.

I will say this - Sagan is showing consistency.

And my suspicion index on him is deep in the orange alert range.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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blackcat said:
got a feeling it was lombardi
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Do you have an idea who Frank was then? I don't think I have seen him being linked to another Fuentes-name.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Netserk said:
Do you have an idea who Frank was then? I don't think I have seen him being linked to another Fuentes-name.
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no sorry, i remember BOTH pointed the finger for AdB

but Lombardi was riding fantastically then. won some Vuelta stage(or stages), rode really great timetrials.

never saw him riding that well for Cipollini. And Riis would not have had him on the July roster, had he not been able to do a competent job, and CSC were extremely deep
 
Sylvester

Sylvester

Sep 19, 2010
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blackcat said:
no sorry, i remember BOTH pointed the finger for AdB

but Lombardi was riding fantastically then. won some Vuelta stage(or stages), rode really great timetrials.

never saw him riding that well for Cipollini. And Riis would not have had him on the July roster, had he not been able to do a competent job, and CSC were extremely deep
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Which great time trials did Lombardi ride in his career? I can't find a single decent result.

And what about the "Vuelta stages"? The last GT stage he won was in the 2003 Giro, when he was riding for... Cipollini's team.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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it was relative to Lombardi's equipier CV.

he rode very competently those lose two years when he was Basso's wingman.

So the "very good timetrial", is relative to Lombardi.

you are right he was no chrono rider. But finishing say, top 30 in a medium/long chrono, and top 10 in a prologue at a big race like Vuelta, are the results i was referring to.

but no one was to no until i clarified what i meant
 
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