How to Eliminate Another Contador Schleck One.Two

[roundabout]

Attempting to win 2 grand tours in one year will have serious effects on the level of the team available for the classics the way things stand at Saxobank now.

I see Cancellara leaving Riis at the end of 2011 at the latest.

 

[Señor_Contador]

I think if Ricco will be allowed to ride the tour he may have the possibility to beat at least one of them

Riccó will not make top 10 in next year's TdF. Even if in top shape.

Some of you guys have the foresight of a lightpost.

 

[Ryaguas]

Beat Contador and Andy ? emm...

remember Morzine Avoriaz this years Tour de France ?...Kreuziger attack - Contador counter att....than Gesink lead the group ...and than Samu Sanchez and Andy Schleck attack - and Contador couldnt follow them ...in the finish it was only 10 second but IT WAS GAP !!!

Also you are forgetting VDB attack... he made it after Kreuziger...

Riccó will not make top 10 in next year's TdF. Even if in top shape.

Some of you guys have the foresight of a lightpost.

Nah... I have faith in Riccó... He will make Top 5... Write it! If He doesn't is cuz He went big time and failed! (yeah I think that I'm already making some excuses for him )

 

[karlboss]

More like 200km total. If you include the prologue and TTT, here is what we had during the Indurain years:

1991 - 176km
1992 - 201km
1993 - 196km
1994 - 193km
1995 - 174km

Compare this to the last three years:

2008 - 83km
2009 - 95km
2010 - 61km

Imagine if in 2011 we had a course like 1992? I would venture to guess we would be less likely to see a Contador-Schleck 1-2, unless they threw in some serious mountain stages, and personally I'd like to see a Tour with some long TT's again. As long as they threw in at least one massively epic mountain stage with an HC MTF to balance it out.

I wasn't included the TTT's. I don't like them being significant in a GT, though i do like the spectacle of a well drilled team hammering.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

One thing about LeTour is unpredictabilty. I mean if you know they're gonna win, why watch? Remember chaingate? Or stage 3 crash. Ullrich bonk on Galiber. Indurain crack at LesArcs etc etc???

Yeah. NOBODY predicted Contador-Schleck 1-2. Nobody.

Tour de France = Poor man's Giro.

 

[boardhanger]

Yeah. NOBODY predicted Contador-Schleck 1-2. Nobody.

Tour de France = Poor man's Giro.

Well as 'the' opening poster thats my point. The race has got to the point that show downs only happen on the last climb. I'd guess i've seen a hell of-alot more tours than you. Every now and again something unpredictable happens. So Feck off newbie !!

 

[hfer07]

Imagine if in 2011 we had a course like 1992? I would venture to guess we would be less likely to see a Contador-Schleck 1-2, unless they threw in some serious mountain stages, and personally I'd like to see a Tour with some long TT's again. As long as they threw in at least one massively epic mountain stage with an HC MTF to balance it out.

two long ITT will make ASchleck a worried rider, while AC can be challenged by other riders with good TT record, specially if the time gaps aren't that great. I'd place the ITTs in the last two weeks-as close as possible, so the outcome of the first one will break either Andy or merge a new GT challenger, and the 2nd ITT will make AC to fight it all out to the nearest contender in the GT standings

 

[Scirea]

Well how are they going to win then?

They won't.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah. NOBODY predicted Contador-Schleck 1-2. Nobody.

And cav winning 90% of the sprint stages and Cancellara winning both time trials. Whats up with that?

 

[boardhanger]

And cav winning 90% of the sprint stages and Cancellara winning both time trials. Whats up with that?

The race needs diversion. How about a red jersey for best crasher?

 

[The Hitch]

The race needs diversion. How about a red jersey for best crasher?

Maybe not a red jersey for crashing, but a red jersey like the giro, for consistency. Cuddles won that, and in the last stage, he was attacking to secure that, since the gc was over. Might make people like Rodriguez and others attack more in stages.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah... I have faith in Riccó... He will make Top 5... Write it! If He doesn't is cuz He went big time and failed! (yeah I think that I'm already making some excuses for him )

More likely, he'll target the Giro, because a) his team have more chance of being invited, especially with him in it, b) he will have more chance of winning it, and c) the fans will be much more receptive to his presence.

 

[Señor_Contador]

[...]Nah... I have faith in Riccó... He will make Top 5... Write it! If He doesn't is cuz He went big time and failed! (yeah I think that I'm already making some excuses for him )

First of all, the TdF "vampires" will be all over Riccó like white on rice, which means his form towards the end of the race will get proggressively worse. Secondly, competition-wise, the TdF is above the other two great stage races so if he's going in thinking it'll be a repeat of the 2008 GdI he's got another thing coming. Thirdly, we've all seen what an out of shape AC did to him back in the 2008 Giro. Fourthly, Riccó cannot TT.

Yet, you're unwilling to succumb to the obvious.

My question is: Why?

 

[Cobblestoned]

First of all, the TdF "vampires" will be all over Riccó like white on rice, which means his form towards the end of the race will get proggressively worse. Secondly, competition-wise, the TdF is above the other two great stage races so if he's going in thinking it'll be a repeat of the 2008 GdI he's got another thing coming. Thirdly, we've all seen what an out of shape AC did to him back in the 2008 Giro. Fourthly, Riccó cannot TT.

Yet, you're unwilling to succumb to the obvious.

My question is: Why?

To first point:
All the "important" riders will be surrounded by the vampires.

To second point:
That depends on who is riding there and who the main rivals are

Third point:
"out of shape" - this is something that belongs to this thread
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9785

Forth point:
He can TT, but is not one of the best TTers. He is still young and can/did improve further in timetrialing to lower damage. But will never beat Contador in that.
But he still has the mountains, which seem to offer a bigger chance for Ricco.

Sorry for my interference.

 

[Ryaguas]

More likely, he'll target the Giro, because a) his team have more chance of being invited, especially with him in it, b) he will have more chance of winning it, and c) the fans will be much more receptive to his presence.

Yeah is true... but I still wanting to see him in Le Tour... Proudhomme doesn't have problems with him in Le Tour so... is likely to see Riccó doing 2 GTs next year if Vacansoleil could get the invitations...

First of all, the TdF "vampires" will be all over Riccó like white on rice, which means his form towards the end of the race will get proggressively worse. Secondly, competition-wise, the TdF is above the other two great stage races so if he's going in thinking it'll be a repeat of the 2008 GdI he's got another thing coming. Thirdly, we've all seen what an out of shape AC did to him back in the 2008 Giro. Fourthly, Riccó cannot TT.

Yet, you're unwilling to succumb to the obvious.

My question is: Why?

To first point:
All the "important" riders will be surrounded by the vampires.

To second point:
That depends on who is riding there and who the main rivals are

Third point:
"out of shape" - this is something that belongs to this thread
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9785

Forth point:
He can TT, but is not one of the best TTers. He is still young and can/did improve further in timetrialing to lower damage. But will never beat Contador in that.
But he still has the mountains, which seem to offer a bigger chance for Ricco.

Sorry for my interference.

Well Ninjaed by Cobblestoned hey BTW... That avatar... Who are those guys? pretty funny!

 

[Señor_Contador]

To first point:
All the "important" riders will be surrounded by the vampires.

I'm not contesting the top riders will be tested. What I am saying is that if Riccó's team is invited to the TdF the Italian's performance will be followed very closely: He will definitely be put under the microscope.

Kinda like what happens to a rider when your blood passport starts showing signs of juicin': The "vampires" will put the spotlight on you and go all out to prove that you take PEDs. If you're not under their radar you're OK. That or you just bribe them to leave your a$$ alone (like Lance used to do).

To second point:
That depends on who is riding there and who the main rivals are

No. The best teams and the best riders all go to the Tour. Some riders use the Giro to train for other competitions (like the TdF). No one uses the TdF to train for anything else. The TdF is the pinnacle of cycling. Period.

Third point:
"out of shape" - this is something that belongs to this thread
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9785

Since I'm not in on Alberto's planning... I kinda have to take his words at face value. And he did say that he did not prepare adequately for the Giro back in 2008, so... as far as I'm concerned he was not at 100% there.

Forth point:
He can TT, but is not one of the best TTers. He is still young and can/did improve further in timetrialing to lower damage. But will never beat Contador in that. But he still has the mountains, which seem to offer a bigger chance for Ricco.

I think there's no need to mention the fact that in order to win the TdF you need to be able to TT. This very fact has been discussed here to death, so I'm not going to elaborate on it.

Yes, Riccó can climb, but so can Alberto and Andy and Denis and everyone else in the top 10 of the TdF.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Just turn it around and take the quotes, which you answered to in your post, as matching answers to your post.

I think we are stuck right here. No problem.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Just turn it around and take the quotes, which you answered to in your post, as matching answers to your post.

I think we are stuck right here. No problem.

Are you talking to moi, mon ami?

 

[royalpig180]

simple: they're not.

erader

I agree. Barring crashes and other bad luck, they are consistently the best climbers in the sport right now. Sure Sastre, Basso, or maybe Ricco could out-climb them on a good day, but not consistently enough to beat either one in a GT. Unless Shleck can learn to TT, Contador's streak of victories in every GT he enters is going to continue (what is the record for this type of streak?)

 

[ozerulz]

Prior to the last couple of months events( i.e. team shake ups) I would have believed AC and AS would be 1 and 2 for quite some time. Not so sure now. The old Saxo squad will be effectively cut in half. As good as Fabian is he won't have the backing to give him breaks at the front, which he does on occasion need. And it is yet to be seen what support the Brothers Schleck have lined up. The next tour could be more open as it was when Lance disappeared and there weren't any clear favorites. Imagine what the race would be like if Vino wasn't running back and forth to grab bottles for someone and instead road for himself.
I think le tour 11 may have more surprises than at first expected.

 

[Cerberus]

Prior to the last couple of months events( i.e. team shake ups) I would have believed AC and AS would be 1 and 2 for quite some time. Not so sure now. The old Saxo squad will be effectively cut in half. As good as Fabian is he won't have the backing to give him breaks at the front, which he does on occasion need. And it is yet to be seen what support the Brothers Schleck have lined up. The next tour could be more open as it was when Lance disappeared and there weren't any clear favorites. Imagine what the race would be like if Vino wasn't running back and forth to grab bottles for someone and instead road for himself.
I think le tour 11 may have more surprises than at first expected.

You don't think Gustav Larson and Richie Porte can take a pull in the front once in a while? Those two are more help for Fabian on the flat sections than he had this year. The Schleck team is an unknown yet, but the only point where the new Saxo is weaker than the old [ETA: in relation to their Tour team] is in that there's no lieutenant who can follow Contador to almost the very end like Frank could for Andy.

 

[No_Balls]

Beating Contador isn´t a very easy task, as the previous GT´s shows. Even more so when he can be off-form and yet win (he won a lot in 2010 and none was in the sparkle way as 2009).

I mean, how can you beat a masterclimber which also can hold his own in the time-trials?

I vote for the he-must-have-a-very-very-bad-day option. As for AS, he doesn´t strike as the dominant rider in the Contadorfashion given his totally focus on Tour de France. Disturb his preparation and much have been won, i would also like to point out that he is still very weak in the TT.

 

[theyoungest]

Beating Contador isn´t a very easy task, as the previous GT´s shows. Even more so when he can be off-form and yet win (he won a lot in 2010 and none was in the sparkle way as 2009).

I mean, how can you beat a masterclimber which also can hold his own in the time-trials?

I vote for the he-must-have-a-very-very-bad-day option. As for AS, he doesn´t strike as the dominant rider in the Contadorfashion given his totally focus on Tour de France. Disturb his preparation and much have been won, i would also like to point out that he is still very weak in the TT.

I would like to point out that for a moment there, Schleck came awfully close in the final Tour TT. It didn't quite work out in the end, but it certainly wasn't "very weak".

 

[No_Balls]

I would like to point out that for a moment there, Schleck came awfully close in the final Tour TT. It didn't quite work out in the end, but it certainly wasn't "very weak".

Good point. But you have to look at the bigger picture.

The feeling was that Andy Shleck did a good TT comparing to AC, who actually did an awful TT (it was very windy - his main weakness). But if you look at the time comparing with the likes of Cancellara, the truth is AS was over six minutes after. Which is a lifetime under normal circumstances.

 

[Cerberus]

Good point. But you have to look at the bigger picture.

The feeling was that Andy Shleck did a good TT comparing to AC, who actually did an awful TT (it was very windy - his main weakness). But if you look at the time comparing with the likes of Cancellara, the truth is AS was over six minutes after. Which is a lifetime under normal circumstances.

It's meaningless to compare with Cancellaras time, there was a change in the wind which is why all the favourites finished an eternity behind Cancellara, Martin and the other early starters. I think Andy was 3rd or 4th among the top ten GC riders.