How to Eliminate Another Contador Schleck One.Two

[Cobblestoned]

It's meaningless to compare with Cancellaras time, there was a change in the wind which is why all the favourites finished an eternity behind Cancellara, Martin and the other early starters. I think Andy was 3rd or 4th among the top ten GC riders.

The only obvious and remarkable aspect in this TT was, that Menchov did a really great TT

 

[El Pistolero]

It's meaningless to compare with Cancellaras time, there was a change in the wind which is why all the favourites finished an eternity behind Cancellara, Martin and the other early starters. I think Andy was 3rd or 4th among the top ten GC riders.

Let's compare it with Menchov then. An in form Contador would have been able to stay close to the time of Menchov. Or even better.

Still a big difference.

 

[L29205]

Good point. But you have to look at the bigger picture.

The feeling was that Andy Shleck did a good TT comparing to AC, who actually did an awful TT (it was very windy - his main weakness). But if you look at the time comparing with the likes of Cancellara, the truth is AS was over six minutes after. Which is a lifetime under normal circumstances.

It did get windy as the day progressed but Andy out in the wind at the exact same time as AC. Cancellara was off the course well before any of the top competitors where on the road

 

[Mich78BEL]

if contador & schleck finish one-two again it would be the first time in cycling we have the same one-two in the tour de france 3 years in a row, off course at the moment no one else is at there level but things can change in a year...

 

[karlboss]

Let's compare it with Menchov then. An in form Contador would have been able to stay close to the time of Menchov. Or even better.

Still a big difference.

I'm not sure this is true, put Contador and Menchov in a long (over 40km) flat time trial, both in form I'm willing to bet 9 times out of 10 Menchov takes it. Wind would only play into Menchov's hands. I may be the only one, but I've not seen Contador handle a long flat TT well, ever.

 

[hrotha]

I'm not sure this is true, put Contador and Menchov in a long (over 40km) flat time trial, both in form I'm willing to bet 9 times out of 10 Menchov takes it. Wind would only play into Menchov's hands. I may be the only one, but I've not seen Contador handle a long flat TT well, ever.

Agreed.

Poor Menchov. People keep underestimating both his climbing and his TT skills.

 

[EmpressJo]

Poor Menchov. People keep underestimating both his climbing and his TT skills.

That's to his advantage then and he should exploit that. Like maybe at the Vuelta. Oh, wait, that's a different thread.

But, at any rate, maybe that's the answer to eliminating a Contador/Schleck one-two - everybody seriously underestimating someone they hadn't thought of as a contender. And Contador and Baby Schleck having a bad day or three couldn't hurt.

 

[boardhanger]

I'm not sure this is true, put Contador and Menchov in a long (over 40km) flat time trial, both in form I'm willing to bet 9 times out of 10 Menchov takes it. Wind would only play into Menchov's hands. I may be the only one, but I've not seen Contador handle a long flat TT well, ever.

I always said that 7 hour plus stages gave Jan Ulrich the edge over his competiton. Which were not uncommon 15-20 years and more ago. But that era was almost over when Jan came about.. Shorter stages etc came in with the new no-dope, times. Poor Jan born wrong time and place.

 

[python]

Agreed.

Poor Menchov. People keep underestimating both his climbing and his TT skills.

agreed but i think it's not so much underestimating but lack of perspective wrt different courses where those tts took place. a flat, non-technical, long tt certainly does not favour contador over the guy. just this year it was shown 2 times in their personal contests.

still, i dont believe menchov is the guy who can stick his foot between berto and andy unless of course we are back to 60km tts and adding a week to the tour. then, his stolid russian nature will triumph over just about anyone.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm not sure this is true, put Contador and Menchov in a long (over 40km) flat time trial, both in form I'm willing to bet 9 times out of 10 Menchov takes it. Wind would only play into Menchov's hands. I may be the only one, but I've not seen Contador handle a long flat TT well, ever.

Menchov has beaten Contador only once in a GT time trial.

Contador has beaten Menchov in every time trial in the 2007 Tour de France, in the 2008 Giro d'Italia and in the 2009 Tour de France.

9 out of 10 times Contador beats Menchov. Let's also not forget the Beijing Olympic time trial shall we?

Flat, short, mountainous, hilly, etc. Contador can take on Menchov on all these kinds of time trials.

I've noticed a lot of people here underestimate contador's time trial abilities. Sure he's no Cancellara or Tony Martin, but he's pretty darn good.

 

[roundabout]

You should read the post you quoted, all the examples listed aren't really applicable to the scenario mentioned (Menchov had no reason to ride for GC, the TT had an uphill finish, MTT, TT below 40km).

 

[El Pistolero]

So time trials only count in the advantage for Menchov?

If Menchov doesn't want to ride for GC or a stage win then he shouldn't start. And don't pull the "He had to help Rasmussen" card as I haven't seen him help all that much.

If you're an excellent time trial specialist you can beat Contador in almost every time trial except a mountainous one(Cancellara for example).

And I was actually listing all the time trials they faced against each other. Not my fault that none of it applies to your fantasy time trial Menchov thingie.

 

[roundabout]

So which one of the two do you think is better at an absolutely flat TT over 50+ km?

 

[El Pistolero]

So which one of the two do you think is better at an absolutely flat TT over 50+ km?

Depends. If it would be in a Grand Tour after 2 weeks or something I'd say Contador. If it would just be a single day time trial a slight advantage to Menchov.

But Menchov is growing older every day, so you'll also have to take that into consideration as well. Even though he showed one of the best forms of his life this year, but 32 is usually the peak for an all-rounder.

 

[The Hitch]

Depends. If it would be in a Grand Tour after 2 weeks or something I'd say Contador. If it would just be a single day time trial a slight advantage to Menchov.

.

I would say it is the reverse. Menchov has never performed in a single day time trial. Contador has, narrowly missing out on an olympic medal. Contador does well in opening time trials (even if they are not short like the 16km monaco tt last year), Menchov does not.

Moreover Menchov won the mother of all gt time trials in the giro last year.

 

[El Pistolero]

I would say it is the reverse. Menchov has never performed in a single day time trial. Contador has, narrowly missing out on an olympic medal. Contador does well in opening time trials (even if they are not short like the 16km monaco tt last year), Menchov does not.

Moreover Menchov won the mother of all gt time trials in the giro last year.

Well, that's just because Contador performs well in most time trials he enters unlike Menchov. Let's be honest here, Contador is far more consistent cyclist than Menchov.

People say Contador couldn't ride a TT in the 2007 Tour, but he had some pretty nice results there if you ask me. At least for that age.

It's like some people here want 60km+ flat time trials. I think they're extremely boring to watch. Mountainous time trials or hilly time trials are much better to watch in my opinion.

 

[The Hitch]

I've noticed a lot of people here underestimate contador's time trial abilities. Sure he's no Cancellara or Tony Martin, but he's pretty darn good.

I dont think so. He is aknowledged on these forums as one of the best tters around. So much so that people here were shocked that he only came 6th in the tdf prologue . Youd expect people to be shocked if he comes outside top 20, but even 6th was considered low for super tter contador.

And when i did a poll asking what people expected Contador to put into Schleck in the tt, the vast majority said over 2 minutes, many said 3. 2 minutes is what Contador put into Schlec when he beat cancellar in a tt. So everyone was expecting him to put in another challenge for the stage victory on the day. Some were even predicting him as the stage victor ahead of cancellara. All this during the tdf. The vast majority here se contador as one of the great itt ers, 2nd only to FC and TM. THey do not underestimate him

Also bear in mind that this is a forum which watches races like Paris Nice, Vuelta a castille y leon, Criterium dauphine, etc etc, all races where contador wins time trials, so they know just how good he is.

 

[The Hitch]

Well, that's just because Contador performs well in most time trials he enters unlike Menchov. Let's be honest here, Contador is far more consistent in pretty much every aspect he's good at than Menchov.

People say Contador couldn't ride a TT in the 2007 Tour, but he had some pretty nice results there if you ask me. At least for that age.

It's like some people here want 60km+ flat time trials. I think they're extremely boring to watch. Mountainous time trials or hilly time trials are much better to watch in my opinion.

But why waste a mountain on a time trial when you can have the mountain in a road race and have more excitement. Besides i think Flat tts can be good, especially at the tdf where there is so much at stake. The 09 annency time trial is one of my favourite stages.

As for the 07 tour, Contador was weaker at tts than he is now. He was worried beforehand that he would lose his 2 minute gap to evans. These years, he could overturn a 2 minut gap to evans

 

[El Pistolero]

I dont think so. He is aknowledged on these forums as one of the best tters around. So much so that people here were shocked that he only came 6th in the tdf prologue . Youd expect people to be shocked if he comes outside top 20, but even 6th was considered low for super tter contador.

And when i did a poll asking what people expected Contador to put into Schleck in the tt, the vast majority said over 2 minutes, many said 3. 2 minutes is what Contador put into Schlec when he beat cancellar in a tt. So everyone was expecting him to put in another challenge for the stage victory on the day. Some were even predicting him as the stage victor ahead of cancellara. All this during the tdf. The vast majority here se contador as one of the great itt ers, 2nd only to FC and TM. THey do not underestimate him

Also bear in mind that this is a forum which watches races like Paris Nice, Vuelta a castille y leon, Criterium dauphine, etc etc, all races where contador wins time trials, so they know just how good he is.

Yes, so why would Menchov be better? It's not like he has proven that he's better. One of the only stages I can think of is this year's time trial. Now I don't know if Contador is making excuses or not, but he said he hardly slept the night before, had stomach aches and was on antibiotics just before the Tour started. His face after that time trial didn't look as if he was lying.

 

[The Hitch]

Yes, so why would Menchov be better? It's not like he has proven that he's better. One of the only stages I can think of is this year's time trial. Now I don't know if Contador is making excuses or not, but he said he hardly slept the night before, had stomach aches and was on antibiotics just before the Tour started. His face after that time trial didn't look as if he was lying.

sigh. Im not saying Menchov is better
Those are other people.

I am saying that people here do not underestimate Contador. they dont. they appreciate he is one of the best.

 

[El Pistolero]

I wasn't referring to you specifically in that first sentence though. And when I'm saying that a lot of people here are underestimating Contador then I'm saying the people here in this thread. Not necessarily the entire forum.

 

[The Hitch]

I wasn't referring to you specifically in that first sentence though. And when I'm saying that a lot of people here are underestimating Contador then I'm saying the people here in this thread. Not necessarily the entire forum.

fair enough.