I believe Lance, not Floyd...here's why.

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Oct 16, 2010
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Cobblestoned said:
Standing left: Paul Kimmage
Standing middle:Christophe Bassons
Standing right: Floyd Landis
Sitting left: Flippo Simeoni
Sitting right: Greg Lemond

Betsy didn't make it to the band and Frankie was loyal to her.

And they are jodling:
Solo jodler
The Armstrong
In love with Lance
Lance doesn't like to sleep without jodling
In the morning when Lance is laughing

Now you know what i mean ?
An attempt to be witty?
Hate to break it to ya: it aint.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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I liked most of what Floyd is selling, but he is still clearly demonstrating a vindictive nature to these proceedings. It puts him squarely on the level of underbelly of cycling, rather than a savior.
 
May 26, 2010
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scribe said:
I liked most of what Floyd is selling, but he is still clearly demonstrating a vindictive nature to these proceedings. It puts him squarely on the level of underbelly of cycling, rather than a savior.
when did Flooyd say he was saving cycling?

and oft evil shall mar evil;)

i understand his sense of injustice and therefore wanting revenge against those such as Arm$trong and McQuaid, therefore it is natural to be vindictive towards such people as they no doubt merit it.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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scribe said:
His drive for revenge is rather transparent.
Oh I agree. In my eyes Landis is ****ed off and looking for revenge but that doesn't mean that he's lying. I don't ascribe any high morals to his actions but so what, I think the truth is damning enough, lies are not needed.

edit: Landis is really really angry (aka ****ed off)
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Race Radio said:
It appears the OP is unaware that 4 additional USPS riders have confirmed to the Feds that there was doping on the team.

When it comes out that Hincapie has confirmed landis' account how fast will the OP put the George on the rapidly growing "Bitter" list?
He has still not addressed the testimony of individuals that were in the room when Lance has been injected. Lance's reputation of demanding an escalating share of PED's while on the National team may also come out, but only as an anecdotal qualifier to known facts.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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this_is_edie said:
Oh I agree. In my eyes Landis is ****ed off and looking for revenge but that doesn't mean that he's lying. I don't ascribe any high morals to his actions but so what, I think the truth is damning enough, lies are not needed.

edit: Landis is really really angry (aka ****ed off)
Unfortunately, I find myself trying to sort out things that Landis claims. The drive for vengeance sullies the appearance of healing on the part of FL.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.
When Saiz was buying all that stuff from Fuentes for his Liberty riders, you think none of them knew what the others were doing? You think none of the Gewiss or Festina riders had any idea their teammates were doping too? When Davy testified that Banesto was running a team doping program, he just made that up like Landis did, too? Phonak or Gerolsteiner or T-Mob riders etc - they had no idea that most if not all of their teammates were doping?

Come on.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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this_is_edie said:
Oh I agree. In my eyes Landis is ****ed off and looking for revenge but that doesn't mean that he's lying. I don't ascribe any high morals to his actions but so what, I think the truth is damning enough, lies are not needed.

edit: Landis is really really angry (aka ****ed off)
For the sake of GOD why couldn't Floyd have taken up NASCAR racing with Rickie Bobbies' team.
Was he not exposed to autos as a child?
 
May 26, 2010
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scribe said:
Unfortunately, I find myself trying to sort out things that Landis claims. The drive for vengeance sullies the appearance of healing on the part of FL.
it definitely is not good for his healing process, but he is angry and its best he directs it at people who hurt him.

But ultimately Landis has to realise when you enter the boxing ring that people get hurt and deal with it and that every sport has its levels of corruption. He knew that when he was at USPS so should let it go and move on. But maybe he will when its over otherwise it will eat him up inside.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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TShame said:
Floyd wrote some emails which have been posted on the internet saying he doped and he thinks Lance doped, but has never seem him actually dope.
Well, except for that "whole team transfusing on the bus" thing, which has probably been corroborated by testimony of other participants at the Grand Jury.

But feel free to ignore that.

-dB
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
it definitely is not good for his healing process, but he is angry and its best he directs it at people who hurt him.

But ultimately Landis has to realise when you enter the boxing ring that people get hurt and deal with it and that every sport has its levels of corruption. He knew that when he was at USPS so should let it go and move on. But maybe he will when its over otherwise it will eat him up inside.
At times, I've heard landis say things that implicates cycling in general with respect to doping. I appreciate that. But he seems to fail miserably when he implicates individuals, as there are clear examples nearly everytime of payback for former transgressions against Landis.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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scribe said:
At times, I've heard landis say things that implicates cycling in general with respect to doping. I appreciate that. But he seems to fail miserably when he implicates individuals, as there are clear examples nearly everytime of payback for former transgressions against Landis.
I don't understand your train of thought here. Are you saying that because, for you, he seems vindictive towards individuals that he is lying?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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this_is_edie said:
I don't understand your train of thought here. Are you saying that because, for you, he seems vindictive towards individuals that he is lying?
He is willing to go out of his way to harm individuals who have done something towards him. How far is he actually willing to go to take them down?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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scribe said:
At times, I've heard landis say things that implicates cycling in general with respect to doping. I appreciate that. But he seems to fail miserably when he implicates individuals, as there are clear examples nearly everytime of payback for former transgressions against Landis.
In my humble opinion, Floyd hasn't viciously, not even deliberately, implicated Boogerd or Pereiro.
These were just digressions. Context. Nothing more, nothing less.
And Kimmage understood that correctly, else Boogerd's and Pereiro's names would have been in the Sunday Times article.

No more lies, and no more having-to-think-about-what-I-may-or-may-not-say-and-whom-I-may-or-may-not-name-by-the-name. I think that's Landis' new motto.

Some seem to have misunderstood the status of the Kimmage interview: it was completely off the record, even though it was being recorded.

When you talk to a friend, tell stories to eachother, you're also likely to combine truths with half-truths.
So I don't see why we should scan the Kimmage interview in search of half-truths, or other passages that might have been deliberately put in there by Landis.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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scribe said:
Unfortunately, I find myself trying to sort out things that Landis claims. The drive for vengeance sullies the appearance of healing on the part of FL.
Which is strictly your opinion/perspective, yet you "say" it with such conviction...

For example, my counter-opinion/perspective would read that his drive for healing is overshadowing any ideas of vengeance.

That´s how I interpreted the transcript...
 
scribe said:
He is willing to go out of his way to harm individuals who have done something towards him. How far is he actually willing to go to take them down?
the guy's got nothing to lose, so what does he care...
what'd Periero do to Floyd that points toward what you say here?
 
TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
Most of the riders that have been caught had a roommate that was likely also doing the same thing and likely in front of one another. Your scenario would have them all in a locked conference room of a hotel, all getting juiced in one big group, which is not what is implied in any of what I've read.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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flyor64 said:
Which is strictly your opinion/perspective, yet you "say" it with such conviction...

For example, my counter-opinion/perspective would read that his drive for healing is overshadowing any ideas of vengeance.

That´s how I interpreted the transcript...
I might be amenable to this, but the end of the transcript shows the character of both the interviewer and interviewee. I was rolling my eyes at the comments regarding cyclingnews, as example. There is no shortage of this behaviour throughout the interview when you consider the individuals implicated.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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TShame said:
There has been no evidence uncovered in a year?!!!! Hmmm, that sounds like they are finding NOTHING.
I'm sorry, I did not realize that the investigation was being conducted on your timeline. Which deadline did they blow?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Archibald said:
the guy's got nothing to lose, so what does he care...
what'd Periero do to Floyd that points toward what you say here?
Periero not only took what Floyd coveted, but threw him under the bus while doing as much.
 
scribe said:
Unfortunately, I find myself trying to sort out things that Landis claims. The drive for vengeance sullies the appearance of healing on the part of FL.
I hope Landis finds some redemption. I don't find him heroic, but he has taken the chance to do some good after doing much harm. His behavior previously, especially at the trial as pertains to LeMond was despicable.

However, at the end of the day this is about the veracity of his claims. I have little or no question in my mind that what he's reporting now is genuine, simply because it maps perfectly to what I've seen over and over through the years as I've followed cycling.

Do you have any reason to doubt what he's saying?

Is focusing on his reasons important?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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sniper said:
In my humble opinion, Floyd hasn't viciously, not even deliberately, implicated Boogerd or Pereiro.
These were just digressions. Context. Nothing more, nothing less.
And Kimmage understood that correctly, else Boogerd's and Pereiro's names would have been in the Sunday Times article.

No more lies, and no more having-to-think-about-what-I-may-or-may-not-say-and-whom-I-may-or-may-not-name-by-the-name. I think that's Landis' new motto.

Some seem to have misunderstood the status of the Kimmage interview: it was completely off the record, even though it was being recorded.

When you talk to a friend, tell stories to eachother, you're also likely to combine truths with half-truths.
So I don't see why we should scan the Kimmage interview in search of half-truths, or other passages that might have been deliberately put in there by Landis.
Landis knows damn well that naming an individual, even casually, opens a can of worms on those persons.
 
A

Anonymous

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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS
A small point, Its USPS not UPS.

UPS are the United Parcel Service of America. They never sponsored a cycling team.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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red_flanders said:
I hope Landis finds some redemption. I don't find him heroic, but he has taken the chance to do some good after doing much harm. His behavior previously, especially at the trial as pertains to LeMond was despicable.

However, at the end of the day this is about the veracity of his claims. I have little or no question in my mind that what he's reporting now is genuine, simply because it maps perfectly to what I've seen over and over through the years as I've followed cycling.

Do you have any reason to doubt what he's saying?

Is focusing on his reasons important?
Let me put it this way, the more I dive into things he says, the less inclined I am to jump on board with the face-value of his statements.
 
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