I cannot watch the Tour anymore

[Benotti69]

Do we know for a fact that every good performance means dope, no.

Well we cannot point to every good performance;

But lets look at some history,

The sport has always had problems with doping, check the wiki page for doping in cycling or better the website dopeology.com

There have been so many teams with dodgy doctors and doping programs, follow the doctors. eg Dr Ibarguren gone from Lotto QuickStep the team of Phil Gilberts unbelievable 2011 to OmegaPharma QuickStep and their very good 2012.

Festina, GewissBallan,UPSA,Dicovery, Astana, T-Mobile, Rabobank, Suanier Duvall, Kelme, Mapei and the list goes on.

So pro cycling with a history like this it is hard not to rise the eyebrow of suspicion and look past the performance to what is behind the performance, the teams history, the riders history, the doctor they are working with, where they train, and who they beat.

It is has been discussed lots on here but the general concensus is that Greg Lemond was the last clean winner of the Tour De France. Their are still questions over Sastre (riding for Riis) and Evans (history of doping teams and a old connection to Ferarri).

We know Indurain, Riis, Pantani, Ullrich, Armstrong all used EPO.

Contador got busted and has a history of working with Marti, who just got a a lifetime ban and Siaz another doping team owner.

So that covers the last 20 years of the Tdf. And of the last 20 wins there are only 2 wins that we have doubts about whether they used performance enhancing drugs to win, the other 18 are doped.

Does not make for pretty reading!

 

[sniper]

Well we cannot point to every good performance;

But lets look at some history,

The sport has always had problems with doping, check the wiki page for doping in cycling or better the website dopeology.com

There have been so many teams with dodgy doctors and doping programs, follow the doctors. eg Dr Ibarguren gone from Lotto QuickStep the team of Phil Gilberts unbelievable 2011 to OmegaPharma QuickStep and their very good 2012.

Festina, GewissBallan,UPSA,Dicovery, Astana, T-Mobile, Rabobank, Suanier Duvall, Kelme, Mapei and the list goes on.

So pro cycling with a history like this it is hard not to rise the eyebrow of suspicion and look past the performance to what is behind the performance, the teams history, the riders history, the doctor they are working with, where they train, and who they beat.

It is has been discussed lots on here but the general concensus is that Greg Lemond was the last clean winner of the Tour De France. Their are still questions over Sastre (riding for Riis) and Evans (history of doping teams and a old connection to Ferarri).

We know Indurain, Riis, Pantani, Ullrich, Armstrong all used EPO.

Contador got busted and has a history of working with Marti, who just got a a lifetime ban and Siaz another doping team owner.

So that covers the last 20 years of the Tdf. And of the last 20 wins there are only 2 wins that we have doubts about whether they used performance enhancing drugs to win, the other 18 are doped.

Does not make for pretty reading!

part of the sadness is that in those 20 years only riders and the occasional soigneur got caught, whereas DSs, Docs and UCI, i.e. the true facilitators, were never charged whilst making big bucks over the riders' backs.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Can someone answer this: why dont they 'temper' their performances ? surely Sky know that these miraculous improvements are going to raise suspicions ...is Froome so stupid as to think he can get away with his miraculous form ? Rasmussen and Ricco looked as ridiculous and they were hung out to dry. Why didnt Yates tell Wiggins and Froome to calm it down in the ITT ? is it because they know they will get away with it and in a month or 2 it will be all forgotten and they will be looking at their bank balances ?

 

[Dr.Sahl]

It is obvious that the doping is no different now than it was then. At least up until the end of 2008, the ASO had a man in charge of the Tour who believed in fighting dope. We are right back to where we were in 2000.

same as it ever was. if you can't accept that find a sport where they don't dope, and good luck with that one .

erader

They don't dope in fencing.. then again, I am pretty sure he would be bored to death by it ^^

 

[UlleGigo]

It seems that everythings fine when Bertie is wiggling his **** up the mountain leaving everyone in his wake, but when 'Wigans' is at the top of the pile through unspectacular means (grinding down the opposition and using teamwork rather than leaping away with EPO fuelled panache), people are crying foul/spitting the dummy/throwing toys out of prams/****ing their knickers etc.. All a bit strange to me.

Are you aware of how bad a climber Wiggans was?

Similar to how Ullrich could not climb well early in his career. Then all of a sudden in '97 he was the best climber and shortly after a tour winner. Sure all the same excuses were presented at the time but it turns out that EPO was the reason for his improvement.

Is Wiggans a special case? It's highly unlikely. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. And the simplest explanation in this instance is PEDs. Simple as that.

 

[UlleGigo]

I actually put money on Porte getting a top 5.. (it was 80-1)

This pretty much makes anything you have said previous or after mute. A fool and their money etc.

 

[veganrob]

They don't dope in fencing.. then again, I am pretty sure he would be bored to death by it ^^

Sadly.
USADA

Caitlin Thompson
Fencing
public warning
L-methamphetamine
3/12/2004

It is still boring to death though

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Sadly.
USADA

Caitlin Thompson
Fencing
public warning
L-methamphetamine
3/12/2004

It is still boring to death though

haha thats hillarius but the cases have to be very few and yes its still boring... what about Curling, do they have any offenders I wonder ^^

 

[veganrob]

haha thats hillarius but the cases have to be very few and yes its still boring... what about Curling, do they have any offenders I wonder ^^

It is indeed hilarious

Mitchell Marks
Curling
2-year suspension
Test Refusal
1/20/2005

 

[Ripper]

It is indeed hilarious

Mitchell Marks
Curling
2-year suspension
Test Refusal
1/20/2005

LMMFAO!! That cracked me up. Fencing and curling. Goes to show you - if money or fame are involved, then there will always be all types ...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Green gets first darts drugs ban

Robbie Green has been banned for eight weeks after becoming the first darts player to fail a drugs test.
Green, from the Wirral, tested positive for marijuana after giving a sample in June at the UK Open in Bolton where he reached the quarter-finals.

Darts only introduced drug-testing this year and Green was only the eighth player to be tested by anti-doping agency UK Sport.

The 32-year-old was suspended by the Darts Regulation Authority.


Little bit off topic but just as funny

 

[gingerwallaceafro]

Are you aware of how bad a climber Wiggans was?

Similar to how Ullrich could not climb well early in his career. Then all of a sudden in '97 he was the best climber and shortly after a tour winner. Sure all the same excuses were presented at the time but it turns out that EPO was the reason for his improvement.

Is Wiggans a special case? It's highly unlikely. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. And the simplest explanation in this instance is PEDs. Simple as that.

If you say so!

I think Jan Ullrich and Bradley Wiggins is a pants comparison. Have you seen how skinny Brad is? Have you seen how fat Ullrich was?

 

[hrotha]

Are you aware of how bad a climber Wiggans was?

Similar to how Ullrich could not climb well early in his career. Then all of a sudden in '97 he was the best climber and shortly after a tour winner. Sure all the same excuses were presented at the time but it turns out that EPO was the reason for his improvement.

Is Wiggans a special case? It's highly unlikely. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. And the simplest explanation in this instance is PEDs. Simple as that.

Ullrich was 2nd in his first Tour, in 1996. At 22. Wigans started climbing at 29. Surely you can see the difference.

 

[131313]

Are you aware of how bad a climber Wiggans was?

Similar to how Ullrich could not climb well early in his career. Then all of a sudden in '97 he was the best climber and shortly after a tour winner. Sure all the same excuses were presented at the time but it turns out that EPO was the reason for his improvement.

Is Wiggans a special case? It's highly unlikely. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. And the simplest explanation in this instance is PEDs. Simple as that.

yeah, but you're discounting the fact that Wigans lost 30 kilos, which is a lot of weight (I'm just going to take the same tact as his Hero, and inflate the number by 30% or so every time the subject comes up. By the end of the Tour he'll have lost 50 kilos or so compared to prior years).

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, but you're discounting the fact that Wigans lost 30 kilos, which is a lot of weight (I'm just going to take the same tact as his Hero, and inflate the number by 30% or so every time the subject comes up. By the end of the Tour he'll have lost 50 kilos or so compared to prior years).

The 30 kilo weight loss is all well and good.. but how big is his heart?

 

[sniper]

The 30 kilo weight loss is all well and good.. but how big is his heart?

I don't know. but his head is H(U)GH.

 

[sniper]

The 30 kilo weight loss is all well and good.. but how big is his heart?

must be h(u)gh by now.

 

[Ripper]

yeah, but you're discounting the fact that Wigans lost 30 kilos, which is a lot of weight (I'm just going to take the same tact as his Hero, and inflate the number by 30% or so every time the subject comes up. By the end of the Tour he'll have lost 50 kilos or so compared to prior years).

Actually, it comes down to this. Wiggins sh@t out his absorbed twin. He used to weigh 225 lbs, which seemed a bit high given his size. Then one day, after drinking some beet juice, he had a very large bowel movement.

 

[BroDeal]

This Tour is a mockery of cycling.

I feel bad for Evans. After a brief parting of the sky, it appears he is back to laboring under the same dark clouds as before.

 

[frenchfry]

This Tour is a mockery of cycling.

I feel bad for Evans. After a brief parting of the sky, it appears he is back to laboring under the same dark clouds as before.

There are some things I like. Leipheimer, Menchov, Basso, Valverde and some others have become ordinary riders.

But in general I agree with you - even though I don't feel bad for Evans.

 

[imaz52]

This Tour is a mockery of cycling.

I feel bad for Evans. After a brief parting of the sky, it appears he is back to laboring under the same dark clouds as before.

Very poor Tour but that's not only because of any possible doping. The 100km plus of Chronos and lack of the right kind of finishes have killed it for me.

Reminds me very much of that ridiculous Giro that Torriani set up for Francesco Moser. Same feeling of fixed inevitability about things.

 

[hiero2]

Well, I watched the tour, and the Giro, and enjoyed both this year. IMO both were relatively clean - but I still doubt Sky was. But you know what the turning point for me may turn out to be? The Chinese superwoman swimmer.

Ok - what I suspected earlier just got more likely - something (or some things) new is out there and it is undetectable. Or "they" (some people) have figured out how to do the same things undetectably. I am saddened.

 

[hiero2]

It is obvious that the doping is no different now than it was then. At least up until the end of 2008, the ASO had a man in charge of the Tour who believed in fighting dope. We are right back to where we were in 2000.

You know, I don't quite agree - I think it IS different than 2000. In some ways. However, on the other hand, all the big GT's are getting bigger, and more money is involved. Smaller races are getting bigger, and there are more races worth much more money. Cycling has become a big-league sport, I guess. I think it is more likely that Sky found a medical way to push the envelope this year, rather than outright doping. But it sure seemed like something was going on.

Now Rodriguez is dominating the Vuelta. I was rooting for him to win, but I did NOT foresee him winning like this - in such a dominant fashion. But, it makes me realize how easily disappointed I am these days, because it is so easy to make me suspicious. Well, all those performances are a direct result of being a big-league sport. Where there is money, dopage will follow. Actually, where there is winning, dopage will follow, but without money you have less dopage because successful dopage (undetectable) is increasingly expensive.

It's the big-league atmosphere in the major sports in the US that has always turned me off them. I think it better to go watch the high school games, psychologically and socially. But, I am obviously in the minority there!

What should I do instead? Well, now that we have streaming broadcasts, I can watch the smaller races. Lesser known riders, smaller purses, should equal less doping. Less, not none, but I can't expect none.

If I were in good condition, I could go out and ride instead. That is what I SHOULD do - be a doer, not a watcher.

But habits die hard - and I do enjoy following the races still. We will see. Maybe next year I will cut back.