- May 19, 2012
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patrick767 said:Well... bye.
What? You're still here? Why? Just need something to complain about? Is that why you watch cycling?
You're right!
Not that it will do any good but I'm out. I'm resigning in protest.
patrick767 said:Well... bye.
What? You're still here? Why? Just need something to complain about? Is that why you watch cycling?
gingerwallaceafro said:No juiced up Bertie or Schleck?
I just question the timing of it Libertine. A Sky domination was always on the cards, Vuelta last year, Algarve, Paris - Nice, Romandy, Dauphine, it's not exactly a surprise that Sky are so much better is it? Wiggins TTing has been the best this year, Cancellara has been injured, his prologue victory was on a course suited to him. The other contenders have been substandard for a variety of reasons, Sky are a better team. Marginal gains and all that. A bit better in every dept.
I believe that Sky are doing things in the correct way and doing all they can to win legally and fairly, within the rules. Howabout giving them some credit instead of acting like drama queens?
ruamruam said:If you question doping in cycling how does this equate with not loving the sport? This is reminiscent of the Armstrong 'loving cancer' rubbish.
If you listen to a lot of [idealists], they'll tell you that the difference between them and us [cynics] is that [idealists] love [cycling] and [cynics] hate [cycling]. That we "blame [cycling] first." That we're suspicious of [fanboyism] and always think our [sport] is in the wrong. . .
Theyd on't get it. We love [cycling] just as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love [cycling] the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. [Cynics] love [cycling] like grown-ups. To a four-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful, and anyone who criticises Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow.
I don't doubt that you love cycling. Anybody who has such a detailed knowledge of the sport must have a real passion for it. However I don't see the need to constantly drag it down. It's seems people like to prove their superiority that they 'know for a fact' that everyone is on the juice and anyone who doesn't conform to that view is a hopelessly naive fanboy.Libertine Seguros said:If you listen to a lot of [idealists], they'll tell you that the difference between them and us [cynics] is that [idealists] love [cycling] and [cynics] hate [cycling]. That we "blame [cycling] first." That we're suspicious of [fanboyism] and always think our [sport] is in the wrong. . .
Theyd on't get it. We love [cycling] just as much as they do. But in a different way. You see, they love [cycling] the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. [Cynics] love [cycling] like grown-ups. To a four-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful, and anyone who criticises Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow.
The Cobra said:I don't doubt that you love cycling. Anybody who has such a detailed knowledge of the sport must have a real passion for it. However I don't see the need to constantly drag it down. It's seems people like to prove their superiority that they 'know for a fact' that everyone is on the juice and anyone who doesn't conform to that view is a hopelessly naive fanboy.
Some of you are seriously lacking some objectivity. Do we know for a fact that every good performance means dope, no. Does it guarantee a rider is clean, no. Enjoy the sport for the spectacle it is. I guess is depends if you're a glass half full or half empty person. I prefer to view life from the half full perspective and give the benefit of the doubt until evidence to prove otherwise arises.
Izzy eviel said:If Wiggins can't drop Evans on the climbs, does this mean Evans dopes as well?
gooner said:Bid difference with Evans is that he has always been fairly consistent in his performances in GTs over the years and did'nt come from the grupetto to 4th in the Tour. Even this season Wiggins has even showed another leap in his performances from that 09 Tour.
The Cobra said:... I don't see the need to constantly drag it down. ....
gooner said:Bid difference with Evans is that he has always been fairly consistent in his performances in GTs over the years and did'nt come from the grupetto to 4th in the Tour. Even this season Wiggins has even showed another leap in his performances from that 09 Tour.
c&cfan said:so he has doped since the beginning of his career, right?
Libertine Seguros said:The race was more open, more people could win,
Izzy eviel said:Yes but that ignores the fact that the parcours in P-N, romandie, Dauphine haven't been difficult.
Avoriaz said:...and yet, as soon as one of these "more people" looks like he might, a whole raft of us cry foul.
It's a strange world
I think that is an oversimplified assessment of the criticism. People are not saying every good performance means dope. I haven't seen a Thiabult Pinot thread to this point. But some people, who have loved a sport for decades despite having that love thrown back in their faces numerous times in the form of lying, cheating, and lying about cheating, question certain performances that remind them of their rejected love. Riders who make shocking and/or sudden developments and attribute it to advanced training and weight loss, riders who are tough on some accused dopers and easy on others, remind us of dark times and you cannot blame us for asking questions, even making accusations.The Cobra said:Some of you are seriously lacking some objectivity. Do we know for a fact that every good performance means dope, no. Does it guarantee a rider is clean, no.
pedaling squares said:I think that is an oversimplified assessment of the criticism. People are not saying every good performance means dope. I haven't seen a Thiabult Pinot thread to this point. But some people, who have loved a sport for decades despite having that love thrown back in their faces numerous times in the form of lying, cheating, and lying about cheating, question certain performances that remind them of their rejected love. Riders who make shocking and/or sudden developments and attribute it to advanced training and weight loss, riders who are tough on some accused dopers and easy on others, remind us of dark times and you cannot blame us for asking questions, even making accusations.
pedaling squares said:I think that is an oversimplified assessment of the criticism. People are not saying every good performance means dope. I haven't seen a Thiabult Pinot thread to this point. But some people, who have loved a sport for decades despite having that love thrown back in their faces numerous times in the form of lying, cheating, and lying about cheating, question certain performances that remind them of their rejected love. Riders who make shocking and/or sudden developments and attribute it to advanced training and weight loss, riders who are tough on some accused dopers and easy on others, remind us of dark times and you cannot blame us for asking questions, even making accusations.
The Cobra said:The point is people pick and choose which good performances are doped and which are done by talented clean riders. This week has been a massive over reaction and based much more on the fact bashing Sky/Wiggins is cool opposed to a reasonable assessment of whats actually happened. Sure he's done an exceptional ride so far, but so did Pinot, so did Sagan. Whats the difference really? Some suspicion is natural and perfectly understandable but to declare with 100% conviction as many have done that Sky is running a US postal style team doping scam is totally unfounded.
The Cobra said:The point is people pick and choose which good performances are doped and which are done by talented clean riders. This week has been a massive over reaction and based much more on the fact bashing Sky/Wiggins is cool opposed to a reasonable assessment of whats actually happened. Sure he's done an exceptional ride so far, but so did Pinot, so did Sagan. Whats the difference really? Some suspicion is natural and perfectly understandable but to declare with 100% conviction as many have done that Sky is running a US postal style team doping scam is totally unfounded.
mb2612 said:Arguably, yep, but there is nothing new about Evans, hence why people are not currently debating him here. Go back a year and I'm sure there was a thread on him, with an equally vehement defence by the Aussies on the forum.
Also, again, Wiggins had never won a long TT before this year.
His time trialling has improved almost beyond recognition, and he has been super strong all year round. the fact the routes were time trial centric does not explain how Wiggins has become so much stronger this year. It's a miracle.
The Cobra said:I don't doubt that you love cycling. Anybody who has such a detailed knowledge of the sport must have a real passion for it. However I don't see the need to constantly drag it down. It's seems people like to prove their superiority that they 'know for a fact' that everyone is on the juice and anyone who doesn't conform to that view is a hopelessly naive fanboy.
Some of you are seriously lacking some objectivity. Do we know for a fact that every good performance means dope, no. Does it guarantee a rider is clean, no. Enjoy the sport for the spectacle it is. I guess is depends if you're a glass half full or half empty person. I prefer to view life from the half full perspective and give the benefit of the doubt until evidence to prove otherwise arises.
ut there is no doubt he was on better form than other riders with Tour aspirations. It’s hard to say he wasn’t on something approaching peak form at Romandie: he was definitely revved higher than his peers. But the Dauphiné? Few guys ever get the opportunity to show the kind of form at the Dauphiné that Wiggins displayed. How could that not be peak?
Here’s what leaves me scratching my head: The Dauphiné TT was 53km. Wiggins put 1:43 into Evans. In yesterday’s stage 9 TT, Wiggins put 1:43 into Evans, but the length of the event was only 41.5km. It shows that he is on even better form now than he was at the Dauphiné.
I’ve been thinking that Wiggins has been riding a wave of peak form dating to Romandie, the last week of April. That puts him in his 10th week of peak form. I’ve been telling people Wiggins will flame out, pointing out how no one in history has ever won Paris-Nice, the Tour of Romandie, the Critérium du Dauphiné and the Tour de France all in the same season.
That bears repeating: No one, not even the insatiable Cannibal himself, ever won Paris-Nice, the Tour of Romandie, the Critérium du Dauphiné and the Tour de France all in the same season.
BYOP88 said:the Cannibal couldn't spell win with his name Wiggins can![]()
pedaling squares said:I think that is an oversimplified assessment of the criticism. People are not saying every good performance means dope.
Libertine Seguros said:I am going now to reproduce a section of Al Franken's book "Lies and the Lying Liars who Tell Them", a satirical look at the right-wing talking heads in America in the wake of 9-11 and the election of George W Bush. However, I am going to paraphrase it by replacing certain key words with ones applicable to the Clinic.
Conservatives as Al Franken sees them, for example, will become the "everything is awesome" idealists. Liberals as Al Franken sees them, thereby, will become the "this looks like doping" cynics. "America" will be replaced by "Cycling", and similar ("country" becomes "sport" and so on).
This is because I feel that while obviously designed from a politically partisan point of view, this accusation that the cynics do not love the sport is summed up well in his retort. I did a similar thing on the "doping in football" thread, where many eminently reasonable posters were being accused of screaming "DOPE!!!" at Fabrice Muamba as he lay in hospital.
Let's see how this one is read.