I don't get the Gerrans hate

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

being a fan is generally a definition of expierencing love or hate. i don't see anything wrong with that. as to gerrans the more different characters the better for the sport. could you imagine cycling where all the riders would've had the mentality of sagan, cancellara or boonen? we simply couldn't have praised really big champions that much. gerrans-like riders are needed too

I assume by "character" you mean how they race tactically, because off the bike as people Cancellara is a world apart from the other two.

 

[May0maniac]

As it has already been written, the main reason why he is disliked is because a Gerrans win is a synonym for a boring race.
Besides that his wheelsucking mentality just can't be ignored. Yeah, wheelsucking isn't always a stupid tactic and I think what he did in MSR was absolutely okay. He won after all so he did everything perfectly. The problem is that there are other races in which Gerrans is the reason why a group can't collaborate. In the WC 2014 he was part of the chasing group only a few seconds behind Kwiatkowski at the top of the last climb. But instead of trying to catch Kwiat he didn't take one single pull and Kwiat won the race. Then after the race he was crying around that he is so sad that he couldn't win although he himself didn't work. This mentality is what annoys fans and I think it's only logical that he is disliked.

Thanks to him an attacker won instead of Valverde or whoever in a sprint.... I don't really mind that.

Yeah, but when he was interviewed he talked about being heartbroken, he talked like an attacker who got caught a few meters before the finish line. He didn't take a single pull, even Valverde took a few pulls.
He also refused to work for Matthews in the 2015 WC, I can understand that Bling was pissed when he won the sprint behind Sagan.

 

[hrotha]

It's not so much that he doesn't attack (although that obviously doesn't win him many fans), it's mostly what GuyIncognito said: he doesn't pull even when it'd be in his best interest to do so. At the MSR he won, for example, he was the fastest of the three and still refused to work. He doesn't create racing, he destroys it.

Which he obviously has a right to do, but then you shouldn't expect fans to support that kind of thing.

edit: I mean, wheelsucking is fine when you're the slowest rider or you've been in the break or whatever, but Gerrans would very often be the fastest one and he'd still expect to be towed to the finish line. I can't stand that. Also, his clashes with Matthews are very telling, but screw Matthews too.

edit 2: also, you don't need to join in the Gerrans hating but surely it's a most simple thing to comprehend?

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

He sounds like a squeaking mouse? I've never heard a squeaking mouse talk, so I wouldn't know.
Sure, he does have a rather, interesting, way of talking. But I just assumed it was his very notable Aussie accent.
Besides, it's it a bit weak to dislike somebody because you don't like the way they talk?

It is but my friends and I agree that if you already dislike him, it's something that strengthens the feeling.

 

[jaylew]

Seems like quite a few of those Aussie guys have a high-ish, squeaky voice - Gerrans, Cadel, Porte...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

He sounds like a squeaking mouse? I've never heard a squeaking mouse talk, so I wouldn't know.
Sure, he does have a rather, interesting, way of talking. But I just assumed it was his very notable Aussie accent.
Besides, it's it a bit weak to dislike somebody because you don't like the way they talk?

It is but my friends and I agree that if you already dislike him, it's something that strengthens the feeling.

Yeah, his voice is annoying af.

 

[hazaran]

Does it even matter anymore? He hasn't done anything but break bones while derailing others during descents in the last few years. No idea how he is still WT.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

If Gerrans wins, the race is usually damn boring.

The LBL he won was one of the shittiest monuments ever.

That's why people dislike him.

That LBL wasn't that bad, at least a few riders animated the final, we had Arredondo adn Pozzovivo on tthe attack, the Pozzovivo and Caruso attack near the end and the Dan Martin crash on the final corner.
Not a great edition, but for me it was better than 2015, that was a really boring race (no disrespect to Valverde, he played it smart an won the race).

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

If Gerrans wins, the race is usually damn boring.

The LBL he won was one of the shittiest monuments ever.

That's why people dislike him.

That LBL wasn't that bad, at least a few riders animated the final, we had Arredondo adn Pozzovivo on tthe attack, the Pozzovivo and Caruso attack near the end and the Dan Martin crash on the final corner.
Not a great edition, but for me it was better than 2015, that was a really boring race (no disrespect to Valverde, he played it smart an won the race).

Last year was pretty abysmal too.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

If Gerrans wins, the race is usually damn boring.

The LBL he won was one of the shittiest monuments ever.

That's why people dislike him.

That LBL wasn't that bad, at least a few riders animated the final, we had Arredondo adn Pozzovivo on tthe attack, the Pozzovivo and Caruso attack near the end and the Dan Martin crash on the final corner.
Not a great edition, but for me it was better than 2015, that was a really boring race (no disrespect to Valverde, he played it smart an won the race).

Last year was pretty abysmal too.

Can we just agree that all lbl editions since I think 2012 were increibly bad.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

It's not so much that he doesn't attack (although that obviously doesn't win him many fans), it's mostly what GuyIncognito said: he doesn't pull even when it'd be in his best interest to do so. At the MSR he won, for example, he was the fastest of the three and still refused to work. He doesn't create racing, he destroys it.

Which he obviously has a right to do, but then you shouldn't expect fans to support that kind of thing.

edit: I mean, wheelsucking is fine when you're the slowest rider or you've been in the break or whatever, but Gerrans would very often be the fastest one and he'd still expect to be towed to the finish line. I can't stand that. Also, his clashes with Matthews are very telling, but screw Matthews too.

edit 2: also, you don't need to join in the Gerrans hating but surely it's a most simple thing to comprehend?

I agree with everything except that he refused to work at MSR back then. I'm pretty sure Cancellara was pulling like a madman for most of the time almost without looking back and even asking for a pull. Can't really blame Gerrans for that.

 

[42x16ss]

What really grinds my gears with Gerrans is that he's a more capable rider than he shows, the way he bridged to Cancellara's attack on the Poggio in 2012 is a prime example of that.

Go back and revisit Gerrans' stage wins in the GTs in 2008 and 2009. They were won by sticking the knife in the moment the rest of the break showed weakness or hesitation, and he rode away with the win. Gerrans also had other wins where he had to take affairs into his own hands such as GP Pluoay and the Australian Championships.

But now? It's nothing but negative riding. Another prime example is this year's nationals. Gerrans simply watched Scotson ride past, fully expecting an exhausted Durbridge to chase, then you see Gerrans clearly annoyed when Durbridge couldn't. Gerrans was fresh enough to cover everyone scrambling after Scotson and win the sprint for second, yet didn't even try and mark Scotson.

Negative riding at it's worst.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I do not cheer for Simon Gerrans to win any race, as the race will usually be horrible if he is in contention. Over time though I have come to admire Simon Gerrans as perhaps the wiliest, most ruthless, overachiever in the peloton.

Everyone always loves the superb athletic specimens, the miracles of genetics or pharmacology. But the guy who isn't the strongest or the most gifted but who wins anyway because he is smarter than his rivals is in many ways the most admirable. Gerrans never, ever goes into a race as the favourite, yet he has accumulated a stunning palmares. He is the king of pulling out wins in races where on paper a dozen guys are stronger, rivalled only by Rui Costa. People gloat and gloat about the WCRR he botched precisely because there are so few major tactical errors on his rap sheet.

Gerrans is not entertaining himself, but he is a force for entertainment in the sport. He is the punishment the universe inflicts on stronger puncheurs when they ride conservatively. Believe me, those who hate him now will miss him when no such punishment exists, when he is gone and Valverde is gone and every puncheur feels free to back his own sprint.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Gerrans is not entertaining himself, but he is a force for entertainment in the sport. He is the punishment the universe inflicts on stronger puncheurs when they ride conservatively. Believe me, those who hate him now will miss him when no such punishment exists, when he is gone and Valverde is gone and every puncheur feels free to back his own sprint.

I mean, they already do.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

It's not so much that he doesn't attack (although that obviously doesn't win him many fans), it's mostly what GuyIncognito said: he doesn't pull even when it'd be in his best interest to do so. At the MSR he won, for example, he was the fastest of the three and still refused to work. He doesn't create racing, he destroys it.

Which he obviously has a right to do, but then you shouldn't expect fans to support that kind of thing.

edit: I mean, wheelsucking is fine when you're the slowest rider or you've been in the break or whatever, but Gerrans would very often be the fastest one and he'd still expect to be towed to the finish line. I can't stand that. Also, his clashes with Matthews are very telling, but screw Matthews too.

edit 2: also, you don't need to join in the Gerrans hating but surely it's a most simple thing to comprehend?

I agree with everything except that he refused to work at MSR back then. I'm pretty sure Cancellara was pulling like a madman for most of the time almost without looking back and even asking for a pull. Can't really blame Gerrans for that.

Agreed. Even Nibali could do nothing but hold on to that attack and he was second wheel. At least Gerrans took a turn at the bottom of the Poggio.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Gerrans is not entertaining himself, but he is a force for entertainment in the sport. He is the punishment the universe inflicts on stronger puncheurs when they ride conservatively. Believe me, those who hate him now will miss him when no such punishment exists, when he is gone and Valverde is gone and every puncheur feels free to back his own sprint.

I mean, they already do.

It is the presence of Gerrans and Valverde that stops it being nearly universal. They still do it far too often. There are riders who really should wait for a sprint, there are riders who are best served by the similar but not identical strategy of trying to burn everyone in the last km, there are riders who should never wait for the finale. An absence of dominant, obvious, winners if it comes to a sprint encourages riders in the latter two categories towards the first category. Which is really the last thing we should want incentivised.

 

[hrotha]

Seeing as how year after year people wait longer to make their move at LBL, I have to question that analysis. Maybe other riders look at Gerrans and Valverde and don't think "We need fireworks, a harder race, unpredictability". Maybe what they think is "Gerrans and Valverde waited, and it worked. I'll do the same".

Your analysis is rational and intelligent. Riders seldom are.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Seeing as how year after year people wait longer to make their move at LBL, I have to question that analysis. Maybe other riders look at Gerrans and Valverde and don't think "We need fireworks, a harder race, unpredictability". Maybe what they think is "Gerrans and Valverde waited, and it worked. I'll do the same".

Your analysis is rational and intelligent. Riders seldom are.

I look at issues like this as centrally being about incentives. Things that don't absolutely determine how a race will be run, but which within existing confines encourage or discourage certain behaviours. Some riders have good racing brains, many unfortunately do not. Many will be too conservative even when it is irrational. Others will wait because it's entirely rational to back themselves to burn everyone in the last uphill km (a Purito, say, or a Martin) and others will wait because it's entirely rational to back themselves in a sprint (a Gerrans or Valverde). That can't be helped. Those guys are racing to maximise their chance. The best we can hope for is for it to be as absolutely clear as possible to everyone else that trying to beat those guys at their own game is strictly for idiots.

Now you are right that strictly for idiots is not a disincentive for actual idiots. But not everyone is an idiot. The hilly classics have been generally bad for a long time now, but unfortunately it could be worse. The more everyone is aware that thinking you can win a sprint means that a Simon Gerrans will eat your lunch, the better.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

It's not so much that he doesn't attack (although that obviously doesn't win him many fans), it's mostly what GuyIncognito said: he doesn't pull even when it'd be in his best interest to do so. At the MSR he won, for example, he was the fastest of the three and still refused to work. He doesn't create racing, he destroys it.

Which he obviously has a right to do, but then you shouldn't expect fans to support that kind of thing.

edit: I mean, wheelsucking is fine when you're the slowest rider or you've been in the break or whatever, but Gerrans would very often be the fastest one and he'd still expect to be towed to the finish line. I can't stand that. Also, his clashes with Matthews are very telling, but screw Matthews too.

edit 2: also, you don't need to join in the Gerrans hating but surely it's a most simple thing to comprehend?

I agree with everything except that he refused to work at MSR back then. I'm pretty sure Cancellara was pulling like a madman for most of the time almost without looking back and even asking for a pull. Can't really blame Gerrans for that.

Agreed. Even Nibali could do nothing but hold on to that attack and he was second wheel. At least Gerrans took a turn at the bottom of the Poggio.

That wasn't a turn. Cancellara rolled off the front exposing Gerrans to the wind and that was the extent of it. Gerrans slowed immediately and did not pull through.

 

[movingtarget]

Riders know what to expect from Gerrans especially after his MSR win. He is not an elite sprinter usually but when he can conserve his energy and sprint at the end of a classic he can be very good. He can also climb better than most sprinters. He is probably more of a climber that can sprint than the other way around. But when he won at Liege no one attacked him. When Kwia won the World Roads from attacking it was the copybook way to beat Gerrans. What is surprising is that so many times Gerrans wins a group sprint by being dragged to the finish but he also has shown the ability to win bunch sprints, more often in the smaller races but also sometimes in GTs. I was not surprised that he won MSR but I never thought he would win Liege and only bad tactics from others let it happen.There are probably plenty of more talented riders around but he makes the most of what he has and to think he first started his career going out in breaks on mountain stages and sometimes winning them. The conversion from breakaway rider to sprinter was a smart move. The sprint was always there as he won the breakaway stages in sprints as well but as time went on his sprinting really improved.

 

[KyoGrey]

Dodgy career progression, which allows a non-top echelon talented rider to make a big leap forward well in the 30's. Unidimensional race tactics which consists of leeching from other riders efforts. Ruins a bright Cancellara win in San Remo and suddenly is able to troll even Valverde in his own comfort zones. So, I guess some people could feel a little bit enraged at the time with this rider.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Dodgy career progression, which allows a non-top echelon talented rider to make a big leap forward well in the 30's. Unidimensional race tactics which consists of leeching from other riders efforts. Ruins a bright Cancellara win in San Remo and suddenly is able to troll even Valverde in his own comfort zones. So, I guess some people could feel a little bit enraged at the time with this rider.

It still amazes me that Gerrans doesn't have a multi page clinic thread. His first step up in 2009 was big, and his step up in 2012 was ludicrous.

 

[The Hegelian]

Happy to defend him. Always thought he had racing nous, but I think where people go really badly astray in their irrational hate is their refusal to recognise his physical talents.

i.e. in the period between 2012 and 2015, he was up there with Valverde and Gilbert as one of the absolute elite puncheurs, but with a better finishing sprint than both. That's a serious weapon to have - being able to stick with the severest attacks up the Cauberg or Poggio, which dislodge all the genuine sprinters, but having a great sprint yourself.......what kind of idiot would develop that rare gift and then not use it strategically? The critique boils down to this: you're not a Sagan or Cancellera. Well, what a bloody stupid reason to hate someone!

The other issue of irrationality is his much hated unwillingness to chase down late attacks (i.e. 2015 worlds, Aust Nats). What people don't get there is that it's always an each way bet whether to chase or not; people seem to think that only attacking racers risk willing to lose in order to win, but precisely the same bet is on with defensive tactics. I heard Gerrans say pretty much the same thing: to keep your head, stay cool and be prepared to lose in staying super patient - that requires just as much courage as going all out from earlier than you think works best for your capacities.

 

[szuro]

"The critique boils down to this: you're not a Sagan or Cancellera. Well, what a bloody stupid reason to hate someone!"

Spot on

 

[szuro]

Even more - if youre CEO of an Apple, or youre playing a "Thief" or whatever game on pc, or youre just trying to ... a girl before someone else, or youre just trying to be better at cooking or whatever then youre ok. But if youre a Gerrans...Youre just a looser and criminal.