I don't get the Gerrans hate

[Geraint Too Fast]

Some people here need to re-watch the Ponferrada WC. The whole 'Gerrans didn't take a single pull' line is a myth.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

The other issue of irrationality is his much hated unwillingness to chase down late attacks (i.e. 2015 worlds, Aust Nats). What people don't get there is that it's always an each way bet whether to chase or not; people seem to think that only attacking racers risk willing to lose in order to win, but precisely the same bet is on with defensive tactics. I heard Gerrans say pretty much the same thing: to keep your head, stay cool and be prepared to lose in staying super patient - that requires just as much courage as going all out from earlier than you think works best for your capacities.

This is a key point.

He isn't a huge overachiever only because he has hit on a winning strategy and sticks to it, but also because he is entirely credible whenever an opponent tries to work out if he is bluffing. He can't be bullied, begged or manipulated into behaving sub-optimally and he absolutely is willing to let any move be caught. Everyone knows that he is prepared to lose in order to maximise his chance of winning.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?

Ever seen that Giro stage where Evans gained time on Quintana. He just sat there and did nothing like he always does.

And who said there Matthews couldn't be up there in tougher races? He weight just over 70kg.

He could easily win an easy version of Liege or Flèche Wallone if he cared about those races.

In what parallel universe?! :surprised: And what races he cares then, if he don't care about Monument and 80 years-old WT Classic?!

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The other issue of irrationality is his much hated unwillingness to chase down late attacks (i.e. 2015 worlds, Aust Nats). What people don't get there is that it's always an each way bet whether to chase or not; people seem to think that only attacking racers risk willing to lose in order to win, but precisely the same bet is on with defensive tactics. I heard Gerrans say pretty much the same thing: to keep your head, stay cool and be prepared to lose in staying super patient - that requires just as much courage as going all out from earlier than you think works best for your capacities.

This is a key point.

He isn't a huge overachiever only because he has hit on a winning strategy and sticks to it, but also because he is entirely credible whenever an opponent tries to work out if he is bluffing. He can't be bullied, begged or manipulated into behaving sub-optimally and he absolutely is willing to let any move be caught. Everyone knows that he is prepared to lose in order to maximise his chance of winning a group sprint

Fixed that bit for you.

 

[hrotha]

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

 

[KyoGrey]

Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

Simon Gerrans on the other hand...

 

[Jagartrott]

I think it is fair to day that on this site Gerrans is the most hated rider for non clinic related issues. I don't get it.

First up, the way he rides is the most likely to give him victories. I find it very hard to look down on someone for doing the logical thing.

A far more important reason is, that having someone who is a virtual lock to win a reduced peloton sprint, should be the best thing that ever happened to cycling. This is because it should cause other riders to take action and attack. "Thou shalt not go to the finishing straight with Gerrans" should be the first commandment for any other rider who wants to win the race. If the others are content to let themselves be led like lambs to the slaughterhouse, they do not deserve to win. "But", one might argue, "the other riders don't want to risk a high place finish which would earn them UCI point and price money." Again I point to the "do not deserve to win" part of my statement.

In conclusion: I do not root for Gerrans to win, I root for his presence to force the other riders to make an interesting race.

You obviously forgot that it's *much* easier to sit in the wheels than lose a rider sitting in the wheels. Hence, your logic makes no sense whatsoever.

It's very simple: people have always loved positive sportsman and women. In every sport. They like the risk takers, they like the ones not taking the easiest or even most logical route. Because they entertain, but also because they sometimes don't get what they deserve. Gerrans is the exact opposite. End of story.

 

[hrotha]

Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

Simon Gerrans on the other hand...

I did say for the classics.

 

[Velolover2]

He is no Contador or Sagan, but not everyone have to be an attacker.

Diversity of ability is a good thing. Want less reduced sprints? Reduce the numbers of riders on a team.

 

[KyoGrey]

Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

Simon Gerrans on the other hand...

I did say for the classics.

My bad. I just wanted to emphasise their different trajectories.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)

 

[movingtarget]

Why the hell are there people arguing that the hate is irrational because he has a great talent and is a strong rider. Since when has that anything to do with whether you like someone or not. If that was an indicator Sky would be the most popular team and guys like Wllens not popular at all.

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

 

[Jagartrott]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Strange thread given Gerro is hardly showing up every other weekend and doing any of the above, not that there's anything wrong with it anyway

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Strange thread given Gerro is hardly showing up every other weekend and doing any of the above, not that there's anything wrong with it anyway

This thread is attempting to impersonate Gerrans himself, by waiting until the very last minute to do something, when something could/should have been done much earlier

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to saddle Bling with the Gerrans tag at this point but you know how people are.

At least let him earn it!

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"

 

[Jagartrott]

Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"

The whole issue is that it has to be a consistent pattern. For Alaphilippe, this very clearly is not the case.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"

Judging by the way he was yelling into the radio after he did a turn, he wanted to work but wasn't allowed

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to saddle Bling with the Gerrans tag at this point but you know how people are.

At least let him earn it!

Unlike his mentor, Matthews dictated a whole PhD dissertation on the topic of Gerransing, so bonus points there.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Valverde is the obvious one even though he attacks off the front in less important races. But if other riders notice Gerrans in a group that isn't that big and are okay to drag him to the finish then they get what they deserve. There are always riders that sandbag even in small groups. When he won Liege it wasn't as if he was the only one not working and the killer blow was grabbing Valverde's wheel in the sprint. That's just smart riding.

 

[yaco]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.

 

[GuyIncognito]

When he won Liege it wasn't as if he was the only one not working and the killer blow was grabbing Valverde's wheel in the sprint. That's just smart riding.

It wasn't smart riding. Smart riding would be collaborating with Valverde to pull back Martin and then make the right call in positioning for the sprint for the win.

What he did was refuse to pull and thus guarantee he was racing for 2nd. He was unbelievably lucky when the almost impossible combination happened: Valverde buried himself to bring back Martin/Caruso, having nothing left for the sprint while Martin crashed all by himself. The killer blow was literally dumb luck.

It was as smart as the person who spends their last dollar on a lottery ticket and wins grand prize: making a dumb decision and getting very very very lucky.

 

[Angliru]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.

I really wouldn't give Gerran's any more credit in that instance other than being attentive and having the ability to jump on Nibali's wheel. I don't recall him spending anytime in the wind other than when he chased to get with Vincenzo. Nibali was on the front until Fabian joined them. Gerrans only time in the wind was chasing Nibali,
the very brief moment when an effort was made to make Gerrans pull through which lasted a second or two and his jump to finish and victory. That is my recollection and it could be inaccurate. :Neutral:

 

[yaco]

I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.

Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.

I really wouldn't give Gerran's any more credit in that instance other than being attentive and having the ability to jump on Nibali's wheel. I don't recall him spending anytime in the wind other than when he chased to get with Vincenzo. Nibali was on the front until Fabian joined them. Gerrans only time in the wind was chasing Nibali,
the very brief moment when an effort was made to make Gerrans pull through which lasted a second or two and his jump to finish and victory. That is my recollection and it could be inaccurate. :Neutral:

I repeat facts hurt a narrative - Gerrans won by attacking on the Poggio or being able to follow Nibali's attack - It was lucky that Cancellara bridged over and put his diesel engine to work - It was won in the same way as Kwiatkovski - Three man breakaway on the Poggio with Sagan playing the Cancellara role.