I don't get the Gerrans hate

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel

It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.

 

[barmaher]

Whenever I read somebody in this forum using the term wheelsucker to deride a rider, I take a mental note that the poster is likely to spout garbage.

 

[dacooley]

too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about.

 

[yaco]

Matthews and the Cauberg at the 2015 Amstel Gold - Gilbert attacked, Matthews followed and then Valverde bridged over - For some strange reason Valverde wouldn't work with the other two and the break was brought back - Valverde works with Gilbert and Matthews and they fight out the finish.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I can't believe this needs to be explained, but... no, no one hates Gerrans literally.

And yes, it is legal for him to choose whatever tactics he prefers. This has been pointed out plenty of times. If you don't want to "disrespect" any riders no matter what, that's cool, but you don't need to disrespect other forumers by ignoring the many arguments they're putting forth.

Seriously - The two examples of Gerran's so called 'negative riding' are the 2012 MSR and the 2014 LBL - It's been clearly pointed out that Gerrans won by attacking on the Poggio ( which is not negative riding ) and which has been done about 3 times in the last 10 years - Gerrans was dropped on the final climb of the 2014 LBL, and through effective team-work and luck managed to sprint to vistory - You hardly ride a negative race if you fail to keep pace with the peleton - There are a number of examples of Gerrans negative riding which cold be discussed, but somehow the miss the the obvious - Facts hurt a narrative.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about.

A past his prime contador isn't a entertainer? why valverde and purito shouldn't be criticized?

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel

It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.

If you can't see the difference between Matthews and Gerrans then you aren't paying attention

 

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel

It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.

If you can't see the difference between Matthews and Gerrans then you aren't paying attention

The difference between Gerrans and Matthews, is that Gerrans is slightly more aggressive and take more pulls.

Speaking of wheelsuckers, what about Majka? The is the climber version of Gerrans and Matthews.

 

[Velolover2]

Majka is fine when he is in a break but horrible when he is competing with the other GC riders.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Majka is fine when he is in a break but horrible when he is competing with the other GC riders.

Which is more or less reasonable behaviour from someone who is usually among the couple of strongest in any break but among the weakest in a GC group.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about.

It's the internet, that place where in arguments you can make up assumptions like "too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan (...)" and create false dichotomy because it serves your purpose. Then of course, you give yourself the moral or intellectual high-ground. Masterclass.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel

It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.

And how many times has a Gilbert move on the Cauberg been a winning move?

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Whenever I read somebody in this forum using the term wheelsucker to deride a rider, I take a mental note that the poster is likely to spout garbage.

So much, this.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

This!
Sure, his riding style might be a bit underwhelming, but that's no reason to hate someone. The world is full of terrible people, hating someone because you don't like their riding style just seems pointless to me.
Okay, so the races he win tends to have been a bit boring - now the question is of course, were they boring because he won them, or did he win them because they were boring? - but he doesn't actually hurt anybody. Let me take a look at those three examples people love bringing up around here (and let me be honest, I seem to have forgotten a lot of what happened, maybe I just don't see any point in remembering year-old dull races...)

MSR: Nobody got hurt from Gerrans' actions. He didn't push Cancellara and Nibali off their bikes on his way to victory. If he'd done that then I'd understand if people were still pissy about all these years after.

LBL: Again, he didn't cause Dan Martin to crash.

Worlds: Guess the only person he "hurt" here - in the sense of missing the win, which isn't really hurt at all - was himself. So... karma? He didn't pull, even though it would've been the smartest and, surprise surprise, he didn't win.

It's not difficult to understand at all.
Our biology is primed to recognizing people that rig the system - dozens of such experiments exist. Gerrans is perceived by many (except for a number of <Aussie> fans here) to be 'cheating' the system - hence he is generally disliked.

Cheating the system? You mean the system where everyone in the peloton is a moral communist, totally committed to doing equal turns in all cases, to the extent where one would rather sacrifice a win than violate the moral order of doing equal turns?

That ain't road cycling my friend, never was, never will be. It's always been dog-eat-dog-chess-poker. And that's what's cool about it.

Even to the extent of Vino's payment to win his LBL ~ which, incidentally, is criticised less than Gerrans taking a legitimate sprint!

Road cycling is like the wild west of doing whatever it takes to win. That is the moral order - and that's why there have been such systemic clinic type situations.

Whoever seeks some other puritan moral order best be turning to church on Sundays and turning off the classics....

 

[swuzzlebubble]

“Racing is licking your opponent’s plate clean before starting on your own…” - Tim Krabbé, The Rider

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

“Racing is licking your opponent’s plate clean before starting on your own…” - Tim Krabbé, The Rider

I love this quote. I steal it for signature.

 

[hrotha]

Many people: "What Gerrans and others do is legitimate but we don't have to like it as fans"
Other people: "OH YEAH? WELL WHAT GERRANS AND OTHERS DO IS LEGITIMATE!!!!"

 

[RedheadDane]

It's not so much that you don't like it, it's the fact that you still - after all these years - bring up MSR 2012 as an example of how he's riding negatively and being a "wheelsucker" all the time, it's the fact that there are so many other guys with a similar racing style who doesn't get nearly as much criticism. Almost as if there was some random draw which decided that Gerrans should be the number one non-clinicey related "hated" rider.

 

[hrotha]

MSR, and the WC, and LBL, and that Tour stage with Egoi Martínez, and...

Other riders with a similar racing style don't have his palmares.

 

[Dan2016]

Many people: "What Gerrans and others do is legitimate but we don't have to like it as fans"
Other people: "OH YEAH? WELL WHAT GERRANS AND OTHERS DO IS LEGITIMATE!!!!"

Yep!
The difference and misunderstanding between romantics and pragmatists.
Pragmatists can appreciate Gerrans. Romantics can't. Each speak a completely different aesthetic language.
Some riders will be adored, some will be hated, and it's all part of the illogical crazy beauty of the sport.

 

[RedheadDane]

I'd consider myself a romantic too. I just prefer using my energy to enjoy all the great racing, rather than continue complaining about a few year-old situations.
To me the crazy illogical beauty of the sport is that are so many different ways of doing it.

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

I'd consider myself a romantic too. I just prefer using my energy to enjoy all the great racing, rather than continue complaining about a few year-old situations.

Yep, I'd call you a new-age romantic
Some other romantics, the hardcore traditional romantics, hold grudges. It's all part of the hero and villain thing innit.

(I don't know what I am or even what I'm talking about half the time...)

 

[DFA123]

Many people: "What Gerrans and others do is legitimate but we don't have to like it as fans"
Other people: "OH YEAH? WELL WHAT GERRANS AND OTHERS DO IS LEGITIMATE!!!!"

Yep!
The difference and misunderstanding between romantics and pragmatists.
Pragmatists can appreciate Gerrans. Romantics can't. Each speak a completely different aesthetic language.
Some riders will be adored, some will be hated, and it's all part of the illogical crazy beauty of the sport.

Good post. I think it could also be the difference between people who have ridden a bike - especially who have raced. And those that haven't. I doubt there are many people who have raced themselves that don't appreciate and respect Gerrans as a rider and his results. Armchair fans will always support the likes of Sagan and Contador, even though they are both tactically awful and just rely on their superior talent to syphon off results.

 

[dacooley]

Good post. I think it could also be the difference between people who have ridden a bike - especially who have raced. And those that haven't. I doubt there are many people who have raced themselves that don't appreciate and respect Gerrans as a rider and his results. Armchair fans will always support the likes of Sagan and Contador, even though they are both tactically awful and just rely on their superior talent to syphon off results.

perfectly put, couldn't agree more. for sure those who ride (race) themselves appreciate other riders' effort more.

 

[Angliru]

Many people: "What Gerrans and others do is legitimate but we don't have to like it as fans"
Other people: "OH YEAH? WELL WHAT GERRANS AND OTHERS DO IS LEGITIMATE!!!!"

Yep!
The difference and misunderstanding between romantics and pragmatists.
Pragmatists can appreciate Gerrans. Romantics can't. Each speak a completely different aesthetic language.
Some riders will be adored, some will be hated, and it's all part of the illogical crazy beauty of the sport.

Good post. I think it could also be the difference between people who have ridden a bike - especially who have raced. And those that haven't. I doubt there are many people who have raced themselves that don't appreciate and respect Gerrans as a rider and his results. Armchair fans will always support the likes of Sagan and Contador, even though they are both tactically awful and just rely on their superior talent to syphon off results.

I'm a pragmatic romanticist and don't think highly of Gerrans nor of how he's accumulated his results. I've raced, I still ride a bike and I appreciate riders like Sagan, Contador and Nibali. I can also appreciate and respect Valverde. Gerrans just rubs me the wrong way. To complain about riders not riding aggressively being the cause for his not being in the mix for a victory when his basic MO is to shamelessly benefit from the work of others is comically sad and explains why he is held in such low esteem in spite of his results.