I feel kind of bad for Horner

[kurtinsc]

Horner went back with Lance and didn't leave until Lance's last crash. Prior to that, it was clear he was barely working hard and Lance was suffering. At that point, the group was 2:30 to 3:00 back of the schleck/contador group, and Horner was allowed to go on his own.

He ended up 4:05 back... but I think it's fair to say that had he not been sent back for Lance, at the worst he'd have been around Wiggins time (1:45 back)... and maybe better. That was a solid solo ride for him up the last climb.

 

[Angliru]

Horner went back with Lance and didn't leave until Lance's last crash. Prior to that, it was clear he was barely working hard and Lance was suffering. At that point, the group was 2:30 to 3:00 back of the schleck/contador group, and Horner was allowed to go on his own.

He ended up 4:05 back... but I think it's fair to say that had he not been sent back for Lance, at the worst he'd have been around Wiggins time (1:45 back)... and maybe better. That was a solid solo ride for him up the last climb.

I have difficulty feeling sympathy for Horner. Where before joining Bruyneel, he was one of the few American riders not afraid to speak his mind about Armstrong, upon joining up with Armstrong/Bruyneel he has become giddy as a schoolgirl just like Leipheimer. Yeah, I know what is one to expect but one of the reasons I respected Horner was because of his willingness in, as Dave Chappell would say, "keeping it real". I guess with his best successes in Europe coming while with Bruyneel, I should expect nothing less.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Angliru. Chris went over to the dark side with the omerta and hasn't looked back, which is too bad. I cut him slack though because he's at the tail end of his career. Plus, he's finally healthy and riding well after having numerous crashes at the worst possible times over the last few seasons.

I do agree he probably would have finished with the Wiggins group, possibly higher. He is a great climber, if sporadic, so he should be able to support Levi well, and may contend for a mountain stage, or KOM points in the future.

 

[kurtinsc]

I have difficulty feeling sympathy for Horner. Where before joining Bruyneel, he was one of the few American riders not afraid to speak his mind about Armstrong, upon joining up with Armstrong/Bruyneel he has become giddy as a schoolgirl just like Leipheimer. Yeah, I know what is one to expect but one of the reasons I respected Horner was because of his willingness in, as Dave Chappell would say, "keeping it real". I guess with his best successes in Europe coming while with Bruyneel, I should expect nothing less.

I'm afraid that I have trouble judging riders based on how they talk about other riders. I understand many don't like Lance... but getting ****ed at a rider just because they joined Lance's team is taking it a bit far in my opinion.

This is how these guys make a living. I'm sure for many of them Radio Shack paid more then anyone else. I can't get mad at them for taking the money... and I can't get mad at them not bad mouthing their team while riding for them.

As it is... it seems like most people in the pelaton like Horner a lot. He's not a jerk like Lance, he does his job and he rides well. I'm just disappointed that at the beginning of the 2nd to last climb, Lance didn't realize that he was done and let Horner go when he was only a minute back rather then 3 minutes.

 

[Cobblestones]

I almost feel kind of bad for Horner (but not really).

C'mon everybody here on the forum knew what Retirement Shack was all about. He signed on with eyes wide open. In particular after last year, when the Hog didn't even bring him to France.

I hope it pays well at least, since there won't be much prize money to go around in the end.

 

[kurtinsc]

Does it just come down for you guys that if you choose to ride with Lance/Bruyneel when you have other options... then you are the enemy?

Are riders like Impey, Machado, Busche and Phinney forever tainted?

Or is it just the riders who followed from Astana... guys like Paulinho, Brajkovic and Zubeldia?

That just seems a bit of a harsh way to judge things. I don't blame a rider for choosing the team that makes him the most money.

 

[Lady Luck]

Horner went back with Lance and didn't leave until Lance's last crash. Prior to that, it was clear he was barely working hard and Lance was suffering. At that point, the group was 2:30 to 3:00 back of the schleck/contador group, and Horner was allowed to go on his own.

He ended up 4:05 back... but I think it's fair to say that had he not been sent back for Lance, at the worst he'd have been around Wiggins time (1:45 back)... and maybe better. That was a solid solo ride for him up the last climb.

Well yes, it's always unfortunate when a rider loses out, but my sympathy is much more with Armstrong. If Horner did not want to help him then he should not have joined Armstrong's team to be a domestique, or at least should have worked on his prologue performance and tried to show he was the strongest rider.

But it's true that the crash did not just hurt Lance, yes.

 

[ridley]

I have to agree with a few odf the sentiments here ...

Last year Chris was left off the Tour team and was fuming, all too soon to comply when was asked to join the team. And yes, I guess it is the idea that there is a good paycheck at the end of the day for him.

The other observation is that the 'chief tactician of all time' could have called the shots earlier and made some changes on the fly rather than to sacrifice the whole team for the sake of ONE rider. They were cooked after the RS crash and chaseback, but as strategy would play out, have the rest of the team closer to the front.

Heck. look at FC when FS crashed, the rest of the team dug deep and rallied arounf AS (yeah, yeah, I know he is the 'golden boy' on Saxo) but they raced on and did not look back.

 

[erader]

I'm afraid that I have trouble judging riders based on how they talk about other riders. I understand many don't like Lance... but getting ****ed at a rider just because they joined Lance's team is taking it a bit far in my opinion.
This is how these guys make a living. I'm sure for many of them Radio Shack paid more then anyone else. I can't get mad at them for taking the money... and I can't get mad at them not bad mouthing their team while riding for them.

As it is... it seems like most people in the pelaton like Horner a lot. He's not a jerk like Lance, he does his job and he rides well. I'm just disappointed that at the beginning of the 2nd to last climb, Lance didn't realize that he was done and let Horner go when he was only a minute back rather then 3 minutes.

it was more than that. horner and levi badmouthed contador during the tour for not "following the plan". at least kloden, who contador supposedly denied a spot on the podium, kept his mouth shut.

ed rader

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Horner went back with Lance and didn't leave until Lance's last crash. Prior to that, it was clear he was barely working hard and Lance was suffering. At that point, the group was 2:30 to 3:00 back of the schleck/contador group, and Horner was allowed to go on his own.

He ended up 4:05 back... but I think it's fair to say that had he not been sent back for Lance, at the worst he'd have been around Wiggins time (1:45 back)... and maybe better. That was a solid solo ride for him up the last climb.

Completely agree, kurt. I really like Horner. I know a lot of people aren't fans, but I think he's a good guy. You can't be a jerk and give Demong and his bike a ride like he did at Cascade.

Frankly, I think Horner's a better climber than Wiggins, and yes, I do think Horner would have finished in the Contador group today.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

it was more than that. horner and levi badmouthed contador during the tour for not "following the plan". at least kloden, who contador supposedly denied a spot on the podium, kept his mouth shut.

ed rader

Please stop with this. You and everyone else knows why Horner said this. The guy has 2 kids. He knows who pays the bills. He needed a job and Lance's team had an opening. Come on. Read between the lines.

 

[Angliru]

I'm afraid that I have trouble judging riders based on how they talk about other riders. I understand many don't like Lance... but getting ****ed at a rider just because they joined Lance's team is taking it a bit far in my opinion.

This is how these guys make a living. I'm sure for many of them Radio Shack paid more then anyone else. I can't get mad at them for taking the money... and I can't get mad at them not bad mouthing their team while riding for them.

As it is... it seems like most people in the pelaton like Horner a lot. He's not a jerk like Lance, he does his job and he rides well. I'm just disappointed that at the beginning of the 2nd to last climb, Lance didn't realize that he was done and let Horner go when he was only a minute back rather then 3 minutes.

Where did I say that his joining Astana had anything to do with my losing respect for him? Horner has always been opinionated and the only time he's voiced his opinion since joining Astana is when he was left off the 2009 Tour team. Shoot, I still like the guy and was happy for him when he won Tour of the Basque Country. I can understand your being unhappy with Armstrong and likely Bruyneel's decision but none of us should be surprised.

 

[erader]

Please stop with this. You and everyone else knows why Horner said this. The guy has 2 kids. He knows who pays the bills. He needed a job and Lance's team had an opening. Come on. Read between the -- lines.

oh please. horner has maybe one year left at this level if he's lucky. it's a shame he has to end his career on his knees.

i have never seen a tour winner treated so poorly by his own team like they did contador last year. i lost all respect for the sell-outs. you wanna talk about karma.

ed rader

 

[Angliru]

it was more than that. horner and levi badmouthed contador during the tour for not "following the plan". at least kloden, who contador supposedly denied a spot on the podium, kept his mouth shut.

ed rader

Contador was the only rider on the team with a degree of independent thought to recognize that the --plan was flawed from the start. The "slaves", of which Contador refused to be, certainly weren't going to revolt.

 

[erader]

Contador was the only rider on the team with a degree of independent thought to recognize that the frakkin' plan was flawed from the start. The "slaves", of which Contador refused to be, certainly weren't going to revolt.

these guys took a paycheck from lance and badmouthed their team leader while he was winning to TDF...and some guys wanna feel sorry for poor ole chris horner with the wife and two kids who was "forced" to pace lance today.

what was horner's share of contador's TDF win?

ed rader

 

[Angliru]

these guys took a paycheck from lance and badmouthed their team leader while he was winning to TDF...and some guys wanna feel sorry for poor ole chris horner with the wife and two kids who was "forced" to pace lance today.

what was horner's share of contador's TDF win?

ed rader

A Timex Ironman watch with the fancy chrono feature.

 

[Potomac]

Horner was exicted to get his Shack contract, and excited to be chosen for the Tour. He's living his fantasy just by riding.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

oh please. horner has maybe one year left at this level if he's lucky. it's a shame he has to end his career on his knees.

i have never seen a tour winner treated so poorly by his own team like they did contador last year. i lost all respect for the sell-outs. you wanna talk about karma. eff 'em all.

ed rader

Look, I agree completely about the way Contador was treated, but seriously, give Horner a break here. The ONLY reason he was anti-Contador is because AC wanted his guy instead of Horner at the Tour.

When it's between Contador and feeding your kids..., well....

 

[the vagabond]

As it is... it seems like most people in the pelaton like Horner a lot. He's not a jerk like Lance, he does his job and he rides well.

News flash: Most riders in the peloton like Lance fine. He generally rides well, he's helped raised salaries in the sport hugely, he respects the other riders, he never calls anybody out for a crash or bad move, and he doesn't whine.

 

[Thee_chisa]

Look, I agree completely about the way Contador was treated, but seriously, give Horner a break here. The ONLY reason he was anti-Contador is because AC wanted his guy instead of Horner at the Tour.

When it's between Contador and feeding your kids..., well....

yeah, horner is not a star, he is a domestique. he works to pay the bills.

 

[BroDeal]

News flash: Most riders in the peloton like Lance fine. He generally rides well, he's helped raised salaries in the sport hugely, he respects the other riders, he never calls anybody out for a crash or bad move, and he doesn't whine.

Quiz question: Who was the rider who said that no one in the peloton likes Armstrong except Basso?

For a guy who does not whine he sure has been playing up how old he is.

 

[Steel4Ever]

oh please. horner has maybe one year left at this level if he's lucky. it's a shame he has to end his career on his knees.

i have never seen a tour winner treated so poorly by his own team like they did contador last year. i lost all respect for the sell-outs. you wanna talk about karma.

ed rader

Please, don't talk about karma.
They will shut you down.

 

[Anonymous]

Different take.

I can see Hog sending Horner up the road in a group on a stage like Tuesday's, or perhaps in the Pyrenees. Why? RS is not a super-strong team. RS can't protect Bottle. RS needs to force Saxo and Atana to blow themselves up if Levi has any shot at the podium.

Send Horner on a flyer and see what happens. Might win a stage and what does RS have to lose?

This could possibly be a good thing for Horner.

 

[nowhereman]

Hey folks! Screw Horner, I agree with erader's comments on that matter. I feel really bad for Brajkovic. Play the tapes over, and look at his face did he even look like he was working at all during that chaperone assignment? He was up there, prior to todays debacle. But I guess he drew the short straw, and was assigned to escorting LA to the bitter end. So ends Janez's shot at a respectable finish. LA needed no company at the rate he was soft pedaling to the finish. And with the way RS is finishing the season after the TdF, the year is over for him too, at this point. After LA's third crash incident My wife proclaimed that LA won't finish the Tour...... let's see what happens next.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Brajkovic looked like the chauffeur from Driving Miss Daisy today.