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I feel kind of bad for Horner

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Aug 4, 2009
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At the back end of last year when the riders and support staff had to consider their future it was unclear (even unlikely) that Astana would continue into 2010. It would have taken a brave man, especially one towards the end of his career, to cling to the Astana shell when the chance was offered to ride elsewhere. So Horner does not deserve the criticisms that are being levied at him.
 
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Lady Luck said:
One thing that has always characterised Lance's teams is astonishing loyalty, not just from the riders but also from the wider team support staff.

To the great irritation of many....

Even if that breaks down in the coming months under tremendous legal pressure, it says a lot about how Armstrong operates that he manages to inspire such devotion across the board from people that don't even get paid big bucks.

Floyd was'nt real loyal.
 

Lady Luck

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Jul 11, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Floyd was'nt real loyal.

He's the big current exception, of course, but it took him a long time to come out. Not being allowed to race the ToC and falling out with Armstrong came before he cracked. On the whole Armstrong has run a very tight ship - he seems to be liked by his work force.
 
May 17, 2010
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I dont see the whole slave issue. Horner was top 10 for Liege, Wallone, Amstel Gold, and ToC. So what he gets to ride for one of the best TDF riders ever. I think radioshack will be more interesting in the last week after levi has lost enough time. Watching the "younger" guys go for stage wins will be fun.
 
May 4, 2010
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Lady Luck said:
One thing that has always characterised Lance's teams is astonishing loyalty, not just from the riders but also from the wider team support staff.

To the great irritation of many....

Even if that breaks down in the coming months under tremendous legal pressure, it says a lot about how Armstrong operates that he manages to inspire such devotion across the board from people that don't even get paid big bucks.

The loyalty is not inspired it is purchased. That's why there are so many posts without sympathy for people like Horner and Leipheimer. Obviously Hincapie had enough of it.
Still a source of irritation tho'.
 

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oncehadhair said:
The loyalty is not inspired it is purchased. That's why there are so many posts without sympathy for people like Horner and Leipheimer. Obviously Hincapie had enough of it.
Still a source of irritation tho'.

He's wider staff seem pretty loyal. I think he makes people feel apart of the team, no matter what job they have.
 

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Jun 19, 2009
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Lady Luck said:
He's wider staff seem pretty loyal. I think he makes people feel apart of the team, no matter what job they have.

Can you name any of these people BPC?

I think you are confusing the term loyalty with 'paycheck'.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
He retires at 38 as a mid-level pro and has enough money? I rather doubt it. Establishing a connection with Armstrong/Bruyneel opens a lot of doors in pro cycling, and I'd wager that weighed on his mind.

seriously... no.

I'm certain he was on a decent wage whilst riding the last decade. Easy enough to 'put the food on the tables' (you make it seem like they are hobos whom need to grift when their not riding just to survive...), plus other opportunity outside of salary (personal sponsorship etc) would have come along being a professional sportsman.

And yeah... nice assumption that his working life (+income) is over when he retires from cycling.

I'm certain he would have been very 'comfortable' in life, irregardless is he went the LA route.

-- No doubt money would have influenced his decision (more money, weather you need it or not is probably hard to resist). But suggesting life would have been hard for him had he not gone to Astana is a bit of a joke imo. It's more greed then need.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
seriously... no.

I'm certain he was on a decent wage whilst riding the last decade. Easy enough to 'put the food on the tables' (you make it seem like they are hobos whom need to grift when their not riding just to survive...), plus other opportunity outside of salary (personal sponsorship etc) would have come along being a professional sportsman.

And yeah... nice assumption that his working life (+income) is over when he retires from cycling.

I'm certain he would have been very 'comfortable' in life, irregardless is he went the LA route.

-- No doubt money would have influenced his decision (more money, weather you need it or not is probably hard to resist). But suggesting life would have been hard for him had he not gone to Astana is a bit of a joke imo. It's more greed then need.

I'm sorry, but that just seems to be a very unfair way to look at it.

Would you take a job that pays twice what your current job does, doing the exact same thing... but you'll have to tow a company line you don't fully believe in to do it?

Most people would. People work to provide security and opportunity for their families and themselves. Heck, I work for a company that has business practices I'm not exactly fond of... but I'm not going to quit on principle based grounds because of that and work at a job that pays half as much. If I get an equal or better offer somewhere else, sure... but not for less.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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kurtinsc said:
I'm sorry, but that just seems to be a very unfair way to look at it.

Would you take a job that pays twice what your current job does, doing the exact same thing... but you'll have to tow a company line you don't fully believe in to do it?

Most people would. People work to provide security and opportunity for their families and themselves. Heck, I work for a company that has business practices I'm not exactly fond of... but I'm not going to quit on principle based grounds because of that and work at a job that pays half as much. If I get an equal or better offer somewhere else, sure... but not for less.

way to miss my point pal ;)

I have nothing against him taking a higher payin job, i said it would be hard to resist. Totally get the want for more.

I was merely stating that - Him NEEDING to go to radioshack/astana to 'feed his kids' and live in a comfortable manner was an absolute joke statement.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
way to miss my point pal ;)

I have nothing against him taking a higher payin job, i said it would be hard to resist. Totally get the want for more.

I was merely stating that - Him NEEDING to go to radioshack/astana to 'feed his kids' and live in a comfortable manner was an absolute joke statement.

Well, if you want to take that sort of statement about "feeding his kids" literally, then yes. I'm sure his kids would still have food on the table if he were earning less.

But I was taking it more along the lines of looking out for your family... figuratively rather then literally.

In his case, apparently he doesn't have much choice about taking care of his family... it's a hefty child support payment. But the fact remains, most people view working as a means to provide financial security for themselves and their families.

I think a large majority of the pelaton would go to ride with Lance or Johan if they paid them significantly more then they would get elsewhere. They may not choose them if all things are equal... but things rarely are.

Team leader type quality riders have other concerns besides finances... but I think everyone else is following the money.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I think Horner's at Radioshack for a lot of reasons--money is probably one of them, because there isn't a lot of demand for 38 year old riders-- but I really think the biggest reason is that he just loves the life of racing, and Radioshack was a way to keep racing at the highest levels. He might have been their main guy at the Vuelta, if only. . .whatever the rest of his racing career may hold, Horner's going to be a super DS or commentator when he stops riding. Like many, I really lament seeing him muzzled for the time being.
 
2wheels said:
I think Horner's at Radioshack for a lot of reasons--money is probably one of them, because there isn't a lot of demand for 38 year old riders-- but I really think the biggest reason is that he just loves the life of racing, and Radioshack was a way to keep racing at the highest levels. He might have been their main guy at the Vuelta, if only. . .whatever the rest of his racing career may hold, Horner's going to be a super DS or commentator when he stops riding. Like many, I really lament seeing him muzzled for the time being.

He also gets to ride more in the US than he would on other teams.