I supported Lance Armstrong until...

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skidmark said:
Holy crap Amsterhammer. I can honestly say that in my time at CN forums, nothing I've ever read here has literally brought a tear to my eye until now. How frustrating that such a fraud can ingrain himself in people's lives like that. It's been fun seeing this whole legacy fall, partially because I could sense the guy was a jerk in 2004 when I started following cycling even before I knew about doping. His jerkness was somewhat offset in my eyes by his perceived dedication to 'the cause'. But I don't think I understood the magnitude of his betrayal to those he claimed to serve, by giving them belief that they could beat the world like him, until I just read this now. I am glad that you could share this.

I've written this before. Stealing and defrauding money is one thing. But stealing moments and inserting himself into the lives of people as described above is sickening. Just sick. He took that from so many people. He is pure filth. Beyond words.
 
Feb 1, 2011
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Amsterhammer said:
Earlier this year, my revulsion at my own hypocrisy finally reached breaking point, and on the fifth anniversary of my wife’s death last May, I had a serious word with her picture on my bedroom wall, and articulated (in Dutch) why I could no longer wear her band, even if I only thought of it as one last keepsake of hers. I took it off and put it in the box with a few other small things that were hers, and there it will stay until they clean up when I’m gone. I couldn’t bring myself to throw it away, simply because it had been hers, because she had worn it on her wrist.
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Amsterhammer,
This is honestly the most touching thing I have read in a long time. Please, do not let Armstrong sully the memory of your wife's brave fight. Sometimes symbols transcend their original purpose. The yellow band wasn't about some cyclist. It was about your wife's determination to live and you determination to support her. Keep it for her sake and for your own sake, not for anybody else's. Live well and cherish your memories.
 
Jun 3, 2010
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I'm in an emotional state right now after working night shift, but got touched to tears from your story Amsterhammer. So thanks, it is a good feeling. (me me me:p)
 
Mar 26, 2011
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I had just bought my first real bike 9 years ago, to ride across the country with some friends. I was brand new to cycling, and while staying in Colorado we happened to catch the TdF on TV.. first time I ever saw it, I was hooked, seeing basso, lance, (ullrich?), uhhh bobb J or hamilton perhaps sprinting for a stage win after climbing a mountain... I got really into bike racing, and started reading cyclingnews and training forums religiously, I think I caught on maybe less than a year later that something was very fishy.. I would continue to get really excited for races, only to feel fairly dissapointed in the aftermath when doping scandals broke or rumors convinced me the "heroes" were doped. I started to just read about the races and took everything at a shallow level, not getting too involved, knowing most of them were crooks... Garmin was a nice addition to the scene, but I always wished they would win more :)
 
Thanks for sharing indeed Amsterhammer, I can only imagine how you feel cheated in retrospect but at least it did you give you and your wife hope when you needed it so maybe the yellow band helped her...

I'm not being critical or passing judgment and I'm trying to phrase this in the kindest possible way given your circumstances but one thing I don't understand is why you (and many others) accepted the fact that he could be doping in 2003 and got over it because "'So what if he does,' I rationalized to myself, 'they all do", an angle some apologists are still playing now. He'd shown to be a bully, to have zero natural GT talent and had already had cancer. I guess I don't understand what changed over the years ?
 
cocteau_ireland said:
1993. [beautiful & powerful post amsterhammer].
121018020752-livestrong-irpt-story-top.jpg


"How low can you go in using cancer as a shield to deflect criticism of your doping and bullying others that speak out and didn't drink your kool-aid. Lance, you are the scum of the earth, and you are the cancer of the sporting world. Its about time we cut you out, and throw you into the biohazard trash bin where you belong. The yellow wristbands only symbolize the the coward you still are to not apologize for what everyone knows about you. Let's see if you show up for the Lie Strong 15th Anniversary Friday night in the sea of yellow. I doubt it, bullies become cowards when everyone knows their game. Congratulations on marketing cancer for a profit for your image and your bank account. I don't believe in the afterlife but if there is, you're going to a very warm place for sure."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/living/lance-armstrong-livestrong-legacy/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
 
May 12, 2011
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Amsterhammer said:
. Despite everything that has come to light, I feel now as I did when I first joined this forum, namely that there are a worrying number of deeply, pathologically, compulsively obsessive and hate-filled posters here, who appear not to have lives outside of posting about doping in cycling, and who are now all enjoying multiple orgasms of Schadenfreude.) I’m not having a pop at anyone in particular, nor am I looking to start any kind of row, just a general observation about how you people who live here in the Clinic look to the rest of the world.;).

QFT...

Sorry about your loss. I bought LiveStrong bracklets for my family as my father was a cancer survivor till 2006. I still wear his bracelet and mine. Lance aside, I think Livestrong does more good than harm. I hope that survivies.
 
May 14, 2010
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Amsterhammer said:
I've had the intention for some considerable time now (don't know exactly for how long) to write up my own experience in the hope of achieving some sort of personal catharsis on this awful story of deception and betrayal. Events of the last few weeks finally gave me the kick that I needed.

I’ve followed cycling as an armchair fan since I moved to Holland in 1989, and found that there was all sorts of cycling to be seen on the cable here. I enjoyed watching, but was never as seriously ‘into’ the sport as many on here are. I rode/ride a bike most days, as most in Holland do, but no racing, nothing serious, purely functional and recreational in the normal Dutch way.

The first thing I saw that got me excited was Lemond’s 8 second win in Paris.

Then, I happened to watch LA win his world title in the rain in Oslo, and immediately became a fan.

My wife and I were shocked and saddened to hear that he was diagnosed with cancer. No one can ever know for sure if prior doping practices played any part in him becoming sick, and quite frankly, I could care less. There is virtually never one, clear-cut reason why someone gets struck by cancer.

(Foxxy, I honestly think that your suggestion that he somehow 'faked' his cancer and made the deception complete by voluntarily losing a testicle - all to cover up prior doping and to facilitate future doping - is really way too ****ing bizarre to take. Despite everything that has come to light, I feel now as I did when I first joined this forum, namely that there are a worrying number of deeply, pathologically, compulsively obsessive and hate-filled posters here, who appear not to have lives outside of posting about doping in cycling, and who are now all enjoying multiple orgasms of Schadenfreude.) I’m not having a pop at anyone in particular, nor am I looking to start any kind of row, just a general observation about how you people who live here in the Clinic look to the rest of the world.;)

I can actually understand the mindset of the hard core Clinic obsessives much better now than when I first joined this forum. It’s just not in my nature to be like that, or to carry that much hate and bile in my heart for years at a time. Life's too short...

My wife became a LA 'fan' on his return to racing for the same reason that millions of other people who weren't really cycling fans did - it was awesome to see someone return to top sport after what he'd been through. So, from LA's return to racing up until around 03 we both cheered him on, shook our heads at the 'stupid dopers' who kept getting caught, and marveled at his and his team's dominance. Of course, LA had to be clean because he was a cancer survivor, and therefore surely would never consider doping, and because he kept passing all the tests. I think that my first, occasional pangs of doubt may have surfaced around 03, but I had no trouble shrugging them off. 'So what if he does,' I rationalized to myself, 'they all do.' Yes, the Simeoni episode occasionally nagged from the back of the mind…..

My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in 03, so when the yellow bands came out in 04, we were naturally all over them and both wore one. For us, they symbolized not only our support for the fight against cancer in general, but also represented a sort of 'badge of courage' because 'we' had cancer too. My wife had lost her hair several times during this period and had a mastectomy. She saw wearing the yellow band as a gesture that was important to her. I bought and gave away around 80 yellow bands during the next few years, something we saw as one of our small contributions in the great global fight against cancer.

We lost our particular battle when my wife died in May 07. I took the yellow band off her wrist, put it on mine, and vowed never to take it off.

I can’t remember how or why I wound up on CN two years later, I imagine it was because I wanted to engage in some English (as opposed to Dutch) tour talk. I was immediately labeled a fanboy who only watched in July, and roundly set upon and abused for my naïve ignorance, and for not buying into the astonishing – and to me, completely new – amount of LA hatred that was going on here. I really had no idea that there were people who felt like that, I was gobsmacked. I was also so disgusted by the largely unmoderated and unpunished abuse that went on, that I decided, ‘I don’t need this sh!t’, and disappeared for a year or more sometime after my BoB brainwave.

I should point out that I had been a regular forum user since before the turn of the century, and also a mod and admin, which made my shock at the state of affairs here on CN even greater. I had literally never come across such a ‘lawless’ forum, nor had I ever seen posters ‘get away’ with the kind of abuse that was commonplace here in the summer of 09. Extra mods were added after I left, and the Clinic was set up. Today’s CN, while far from perfect, is an altogether different, and better forum than it was then.

During my CN free time, I read, watched, and listened. Since I like to think of myself as a rational man who is open to reason and argument, I gradually but inevitably came to the unavoidable conclusion that LA had indeed been a liar, cheat, and fraud for a long time. This realization was pretty depressing, since it meant that I had allowed myself to be fooled, despite my occasional misgivings going back to his tour wins. Why hadn’t I listened to that voice? The cancer angle, that was the hook he had in me, because surely Livestrong was above board, and was doing good work? Surely? And anyone who did such good work for cancer sufferers just couldn’t be the kind of evil ******* that he was made out to be here. Surely?

Since (occasionally) posting again on CN over the last couple of years, I’ve kept my eyes and brain open, even though I’m not the Clinic poster type. I began to question and analyze my motives for still wearing my wife’s yellow band. Earlier this year, my revulsion at my own hypocrisy finally reached breaking point, and on the fifth anniversary of my wife’s death last May, I had a serious word with her picture on my bedroom wall, and articulated (in Dutch) why I could no longer wear her band, even if I only thought of it as one last keepsake of hers. I took it off and put it in the box with a few other small things that were hers, and there it will stay until they clean up when I’m gone. I couldn’t bring myself to throw it away, simply because it had been hers, because she had worn it on her wrist.

I have had nothing more to do with Liestrong for years now, there are plenty of other cancer charities and organizations doing good work. Here ends my confession, and with it a weight off my chest.

That was wonderful. Thank you.
 
Jan 29, 2010
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Amsterhammer, I too recall the rancorous days around here in 2009, I was only lurking at the time but I do recall that you seemed to be a voice of reason, and I missed it the following years. I'd always wondered where you, among other posters went.

Thank you so much for coming back to share your story. I can only imagine what it must feel like to have this sordid mess insert itself into your life in the way that it has.

I can only say that going forward I will be a lot less judgmental if I ever see another yellow wristband. I've not said anything in the past, though I've smirked on the inside thinking what a fool that person must be, but there is so much more to life than just LA, and you have shared that so clearly with us.

Again, thank you.
 
Jun 26, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
It is heart breaking when friends get cancer, and more heartbreaking when they die. It is so unfair. People who never smoked, complaining of hip problems and being told it's from the cycling training they're doing. Going for a second opinion and discovering you have cancer in your hip. And your lungs. Never smoked. Dying months later. It's cruel.

Sitting at work next to a my friend / boss and every now and then the little pump thing would pfffffft another mini dose of chemo into him. Throat cancer. Never smoked. Fit as a fiddle. Bewildering.

It takes the best people from our lives. No matter how close or precious they are.

I never supported Lance Armstrong.

I don't think we need more cancer awareness.
It's shocking - I've has my cousin go through it and now I've know 2 workmates as well, one currently now

It makes my blood boil whenever lances 'charity work' has made people stand up for him now when it is a sham. But it needs to be proven BEFORE lance goes down completely

It makes my blood boil that he has used and abuse those who are generous & vulnerable.

I honestly hate that more than the doping
 
Dear Amsterhammer,

Thanks you for your cogent, thoughtful and emotionally riveting post. It has been a long time since I have seen anything so eloquent here in the CN Forum. It is a beautiful piece of writing.

I remember your posts many years ago when you first came to the Forum, and watching you get attacked as a Fan Boy and a heretic here on this site. You are correct in your assessment of that time, when the discourse was less controlled and the vitriol directed at individuals was epidemic. While I participated in much of that, I am proud to say that it was mostly in support of alternative points of view rather then rabidly attacking them.

I do confess to having had a real fondness for the verbal jousting and a snappy come backs, but like you, I seldom post here anymore. I remember that my very first post on this site was a suggestion to the moderators to create a sub category for those so inclined to dice it up over political and doping issues (http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=509), or what is now the "Clinic". I do check in now and then to see what the buzz is, but I don't find the level of creativity and rational thought that was more prolific back then. Maybe the price of that creativity was a high degree of animus, and maybe the Forum is a more civil place now without it... I hope it is.

Recent developments have brought me back more often to than usual to get a pulse on the sentiment surrounding the widely predicted eventual fall of Lance and the cracks in the armor of Omerta. Finding your beautiful missive on your personal revelations about the man was both a delight and an inspiration.

My own revelations about Lance came from some messy business dealings with him and his handlers prior to the 2000 TDF. Being convinced that I had never met a bigger a$$hole, it became hard for me to fully support his efforts, and much easier to believe that he would go to any level in pursuit of success. I will say that his notoriety contributed greatly to the growth and awareness of cycling here in the U.S. I benefitted from that growth, but like many here, have always had mixed emotions about it.

Now we are witnessing possibly the greatest fall from grace of any athlete or pubic figure in our life times. It has only just begun. It has much farther to go, and consequences that will be felt in far flung corners of cycling and all sports. In the end we can only hope that it is good for the sport. That is my most fervent desire. However my bigger fear is that very dark days lie ahead for current teams, riders, organizers, and sponsors as fans globally come to grips with the grim reality of what professional cycling has become.
 
ROFL....TS, you are part of the problem.

Please step away from the sport of cycling and get a grip on reality and the big picture.

It really is just a bunch of people pedaling bicycles in the end.

Apparently most people can't get a little perspective on things in this world and relevance.
 

mountainrman

BANNED
Oct 17, 2012
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Frosty said:
Never really liked the guy but gave him the benefit of the doubt until the Simeone incident.

At the time some commentators wrongly referred to that incident as a broken deal between teams - that help agreed had not been forthcoming , so Lance was exacting a punishment - so I had not picked up the significance of it till later.

With me I assumed they were all doing it and the fact they were all doing it somehow levelled the playing field, so that the ones who got caught were unlucky.I assumed that UCI had no real interest in exposing what it knew or must have suspectec was going on. " the death of marco pantani " confirmed what I had long suspected to be true. The day I read that I guess is the day the legends finally died.

That being so I disliked blacklisting which seemed a charade to me and turning on such as Bruyneel with a lifetime ban seems to me now to be scapegoating universal practise.

Should we really rewarding such as Hincapie, allowed to ride tdf and retire, who was more or less as much of a doper as Lance, but just not good enough to win? The difference between Hincapie and Landis, is hincapie was clearly better at cheating! History of other riders says that had Hincapie been caught he would probably have protested innocence, so that the idea that hincapie owned up but landis did not is not fair commentary in my view.

That is my biggest objection to kangaroo courts.The justice they dispense is not equitable, or even handed. Riis still has a tdf title despite admitting doping and managing teams that doped since. Indurains time on the alpe is up there with the bad boys.

The crime is supposed to be doping , which is common to almost all of that peloton, but the crime that is actually punished is getting caught, winning or speaking out.

The only thing that singles Lance out is the intimidation of little people used to achieve silence, using law suits to people without money, and that deserves special sanction in my book. Mcquaid was a good student so turns on kimmage, not the newspaper.

I still question the value in " outing" practises common ten years ago. A line in the sand should have been drawn at (say) 2006 or at the point EPO testing was deemed to be reliable and the battle fought against all riders since who are still in the sport.
 
PR post alert.

"kangaroo court"

In the same breath as "liberal elite" and "big government" and all the other weird yank phrases which make them think they're making a clever point and persuading people.

When they just sound like twats
 
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