Il Lombardia 2016, Oct 1st

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Never thought I would be disappointed about an Astana rider losing.

All that work for Aru, so he couldn't make the decisive move and had to chase on his own..

It was madness from Astana to make Rosa do so much work when he did. The group was still huge then, both he and Aru could have continued to sit in and keep more cards open. Even if some riders from the peloton would have got back, they'd have just dropped again on the next climb.

but working on a 9% climb doesn't take much more energy than following

For 8km it does, however. Then came that effort, alone, on a false flat because he didn't have the explosiveness that he would've probably had had he not worked. Then came the fact that for some reason he decided to work so much on the flat section. And then he attacked 3 times in the last 5km. Yet still beat Uran

 

[DFA123]

So monument winners this season: Demare, Sagan, Poels, Hayman and Chaves. If anyone had an accumulator on that lot at the start of the season, they could happily retire now.

 

[Brullnux]

It's also 6 first time monument winners in a row

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Chaves 2016 season = Purito 2012 season.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Purito's 2012 season was one level above Chavito's.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

It's also 6 first time monument winners in a row

Yep, meanwhile the GTs continue to be horrendously predictable. With the three best GC riders in the world all picking up one each.

Monuments are clearly the future of cycling in the modern era onwards. The length and difficulty just forces great selections and unpredictable but epic racing.

 

[Arredondo]

Re:

Chaves 2016 season = Purito 2012 season.

Purito's 2012 season was still better.

Purito 2012 = 2 GT podiums + monument + classic + WT + 5 stages in GT's + 12 victories in total

Chaves 2016 = 2 GT's podiums + monument + 1 stage in GT + 3 victories in total

But Chaves rode a really positive attacking and great season!

 

[Mr.White]

What a season for Chaves! Certainly top 5. And what a shitty sprinter Uran is, I take back my words that he's on the same level with D.Martin and Rui Costa, he's on Contador's level Rosa, great race, had he been a leader and not worked earlier, he would have probably win here. Bala, well he is tireless, he could ride for ages and ages. Although with a different schedule this year, he would've been with this four up front

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Chaves 2016 season = Purito 2012 season.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Purito's 2012 season was one level above Chavito's.

Yeah ok. But it shares some similarities: 2nd place in Giro, 3rd place in Vuelta and Lombardia win.

 

[Pantani_lives]

It doesn't often happen that the best climber wins when it comes down to a sprint on the flat. Chaves rode a smart sprint, by waiting long and letting the other two tire each other.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Chaves 2016 season = Purito 2012 season.

No. Purito's was clearly better, but great season for Chaves nonetheless

 

[Anderis]

Barguil's 8th place saved Giant from the threat of relegation, it seems.

 

[hfer07]

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

 

[AlexNYC]

I'm sad for Uran, but he just doesn't know how to win. He always goes for the most predictable strategy.

And Chaves, making history... First Colombian monument winner and first non-European to win Lombardia ever.

 

[Gigs_98]

Wow, what a race.
I'm sad that Rosa didn't win, he was so incredibly strong but then had a complete brain fart to start the sprint before the final corner. Nevertheless, I also really like Chaves and he deserves this win after a superb season.

Edit: And did you notice that there is only one way Chaves can win a sprint? The way Rosa sprinted today was an exact copy of how Preidler f***** up his sprint in the Covara stage in the giro.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Like last time for Nibali. He shoul have been sole leader for this race.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

 

[aarononymous]

Re: Re:

Uran is such a non-winner

This. Some riders just don't have that killer instinct.

Most of them seem to end up at Cannondale.

Yeah he should have pedaled harder

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

I think the decision to go in with just one sole leader is almost always wrong in a monument. Rosa should have been a protected rider from the start; perhaps only working for Aru in a decisive late selection from a very small group. He certainly shouldn't have been driving the front of a large group 50km from the finish. Astana didn't really have anything to gain by burning Rosa there, closing down gaps and wasting energy.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Uran is such a non-winner

This. Some riders just don't have that killer instinct.

Most of them seem to end up at Cannondale.

Yeah he should have pedaled harder

Right, because that's all bike racing tactics is about.

Uran is one of the most talented riders in the peloton - he can win all kinds of races, but only has four WT victories in his whole career, and just one classic (a rubbish one at that). That averages about one win every two seasons of his career, which is an awful record for someone of his ability. He's got loads of 2nd and 3rd places though - so tactics is obviously a recurring issue.

 

[ILovecycling]

Congrats Chavito! What a victory!

 

[aarononymous]

Re: Re:

Uran is such a non-winner

This. Some riders just don't have that killer instinct.

Most of them seem to end up at Cannondale.

Yeah he should have pedaled harder

Right, because that's all bike racing tactics is about.

Uran is one of the most talented riders in the peloton - he can win all kinds of races, but only has four WT victories in his whole career, and just one classic (a rubbish one at that). That averages about one win every two seasons of his career, which is an awful record for someone of his ability. He's got loads of 2nd and 3rd places though - so tactics is obviously a recurring issue.

Well enlighten me on how that argument applies to today and what he could have done better...looks like he just didn't have it but was in a good position.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Right, because that's all bike racing tactics is about.

Uran is one of the most talented riders in the peloton - he can win all kinds of races, but only has four WT victories in his whole career, and just one classic (a rubbish one at that). That averages about one win every two seasons of his career, which is an awful record for someone of his ability. He's got loads of 2nd and 3rd places though - so tactics is obviously a recurring issue.

Well enlighten me on how that argument applies to today and what he could have done better...looks like he just didn't have it but was in a good position.

He could have not done all the work in the last 3km. He could have tried to attack himself a few times instead of just driving the group and waiting for the sprint. He could have slowed right down forcing someone else through. There are lots of things he could have done differently.

What he did was essentially what people often wrongly criticize Valverde for not doing. Closing down every attack and trying to defensively control the last 3km waiting for the sprint. Then, by the time the sprint comes, he didn't have the legs any more to come round. He had to be prepared to lose the race to win it; but instead tried to go on the defensive and tired himself out.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

I think the decision to go in with just one sole leader is almost always wrong in a monument. Rosa should have been a protected rider from the start; perhaps only working for Aru in a decisive late selection from a very small group. He certainly shouldn't have been driving the front of a large group 50km from the finish. Astana didn't really have anything to gain by burning Rosa there, closing down gaps and wasting energy.

But after the group with Rosa and Aru formed someone had to work and in that situation it simply made more sense to burn Rosa.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re: Re:

Uran is such a non-winner

This. Some riders just don't have that killer instinct.

Most of them seem to end up at Cannondale.

Yeah he should have pedaled harder

Right, because that's all bike racing tactics is about.

Uran is one of the most talented riders in the peloton - he can win all kinds of races, but only has four WT victories in his whole career, and just one classic (a rubbish one at that). That averages about one win every two seasons of his career, which is an awful record for someone of his ability. He's got loads of 2nd and 3rd places though - so tactics is obviously a recurring issue.

Well enlighten me on how that argument applies to today and what he could have done better...looks like he just didn't have it but was in a good position.

When looked at in isolation, you make a good point, it's hard to see what he could have done differently today. The problem with Rigo is that it has happened to him just enough times that one has to wonder if there is something he's not doing right. The odds of him not winning one of these big races where he always is oh just so close are not very high.

It's very frustrating. His is such agreat life story, he deserves at least one big win in his career.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

I think the decision to go in with just one sole leader is almost always wrong in a monument. Rosa should have been a protected rider from the start; perhaps only working for Aru in a decisive late selection from a very small group. He certainly shouldn't have been driving the front of a large group 50km from the finish. Astana didn't really have anything to gain by burning Rosa there, closing down gaps and wasting energy.

But after the group with Rosa and Aru formed someone had to work and in that situation it simply made more sense to burn Rosa.

Why did someone from Astana have to do all the work? There was only Caruso and Latour up the road. They weren't serious threats so far from the finish. And the peloton was no longer an issue; even if riders had got on from the peloton, they would have dropped on the next climb - they were all cooked.

Absolutley no need for Astana to send anyone to the front at that stage. Perhaps to take a pull, sure, but to stay on the front for 8km closing down all attacks was completely unneccessary when the front group was still so big.