Il Lombardia 2016, Oct 1st

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

I think the decision to go in with just one sole leader is almost always wrong in a monument. Rosa should have been a protected rider from the start; perhaps only working for Aru in a decisive late selection from a very small group. He certainly shouldn't have been driving the front of a large group 50km from the finish. Astana didn't really have anything to gain by burning Rosa there, closing down gaps and wasting energy.

I agree, but once again it is understandable. It worked perfectly last year, so why fix something that ain't broke? Of course its a very risky strategy, especially with Aru in weaker shape than Nibali last year, but it made sense. Aru should've realised he didn't have it, though.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Rosa should be disappointed- not by his 2nd place, but by all the insane workload he did for Aru, whose condition for these classics was horrible. Rosa should have been given leadership today

Aru since Olympics (where he finished 6th):
62 GP de Fourmies / La Voix du Nord (1.HC)
19 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
41 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
20 Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze (1.1)
23 UEC Road European Championships - Road Race (CC)
4 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
25 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
4 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
9 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
6 Milano-Torino (1.HC)

Rosa since Olympics (where he DNFed):
37 Grand Prix Cycliste de Quebec (1.UWT)
34 Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal (1.UWT)
DNF Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini (2.1)
30 Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio citta di Peccioli (1.1)
43 Giro dell'Emilia (1.HC)
24 Tre Valli Varesine (1.HC)
21 Milano-Torino (1.HC)
DNF Giro del Piemonte (1.HC)

Astana got it wrong today, yes, but it hindsight is a wonderful thing. Aru has been in better form than Rosa recently, who has been in much worse than form than last year. Astana had every right to give leadership to Aru at the start of the day, considering the past few weeks. Aru should have noticed that Rosa was having a fantastic day and that his form was building, whereas he was having an awful day and his form was waning, and switched it on the road. The decision to give Aru the leadership at the start was right. The decision not to switch is what was wrong about today.

I think the decision to go in with just one sole leader is almost always wrong in a monument. Rosa should have been a protected rider from the start; perhaps only working for Aru in a decisive late selection from a very small group. He certainly shouldn't have been driving the front of a large group 50km from the finish. Astana didn't really have anything to gain by burning Rosa there, closing down gaps and wasting energy.

I agree, but once again it is understandable. It worked perfectly last year, so why fix something that ain't broke? Of course its a very risky strategy, especially with Aru in weaker shape than Nibali last year, but it made sense. Aru should've realised he didn't have it, though.

Yeah, last year probably blinded them a bit as well. I guess Rosa leaving would have made them more inclined to stick with Aru longer than they should have as well.

 

[aarononymous]

Re: Re:

Right, because that's all bike racing tactics is about.

Uran is one of the most talented riders in the peloton - he can win all kinds of races, but only has four WT victories in his whole career, and just one classic (a rubbish one at that). That averages about one win every two seasons of his career, which is an awful record for someone of his ability. He's got loads of 2nd and 3rd places though - so tactics is obviously a recurring issue.

Well enlighten me on how that argument applies to today and what he could have done better...looks like he just didn't have it but was in a good position.

He could have not done all the work in the last 3km. He could have tried to attack himself a few times instead of just driving the group and waiting for the sprint. He could have slowed right down forcing someone else through. There are lots of things he could have done differently.

What he did was essentially what people often wrongly criticize Valverde for not doing. Closing down every attack and trying to defensively control the last 3km waiting for the sprint. Then, by the time the sprint comes, he didn't have the legs any more to come round. He had to be prepared to lose the race to win it; but instead tried to go on the defensive and tired himself out.

I think Chaves was more prepared for this today. Rosa was much stronger today so I think he did good for himself to have a chance at the end. Didn't see him miss the first selection early on in the race so perhaps that was an error. His sprint was weak even though the announcers had him pegged as the fastest, along with many on the forum. A good career just always seemed a notch below the top climbers and sprinters in small groups. Seems that his best chances are in one day races so he should focus on them.

Great win for Chaves, maybe Uran auditioning for OGE....

 

[May0maniac]

Yeah, Aru had way better results that Rosa since the Olympics, so it was understandable.
The fact that Scarponi wasn't able to ride because of the Milano-Torino crash also hurt their chances, he was in geat shape and could have been very useful.
Villella was also really strong, maybe he'll be able to finally realize his potential.

 

[Alexandre B.]

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

 

[WheelofGear]

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

Playing the PR-card, obviously, but I assume he means with 60 km to go, right? If not, that absolutely makes no sense.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Not always. Especially the first.

 

[Billie]

Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

Rosa is a MTB'er and they're known as being weird guys so wouldn't surprise me as this was him playing his own card

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Olympics were at least on the level of lombardia and the giro and the vuelta were actually quite good this year.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, overall, it has actually been a really good year. The classics minus the Ardennes have been really fricken good (cobbles + Lombardia + Olympics) and the Giro and the Vuelta have both been above average. The Tour was horrible, yes, but isn't this the best year in like at least 5 years?

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

Yeah, overall, it has actually been a really good year. The classics minus the Ardennes have been really fricken good (cobbles + Lombardia + Olympics) and the Giro and the Vuelta have both been above average. The Tour was horrible, yes, but isn't this the best year in like at least 5 years?

Is there a year in recent memory where this or Flanders wouldn't have comfortably been the best big races of the year? And now they're not even in the conversation. Great season.

 

[movingtarget]

Great win for Chaves but I was hoping for Uran to have a change of luck. He needs it.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

Playing the PR-card, obviously, but I assume he means with 60 km to go, right? If not, that absolutely makes no sense.

Yes, Rosa meant 60 to go, it was a misquote.

 

[Ferminal]

It's not enough for Aru to say have some freedom because everyone was always going to look to Astana to control it. Aru maybe should have attacked at that point to flush out the other favourites. I mean he already felt the power of Chaves and Uran earlier in the week so he would have known he couldn't match it with them in a showdown.

Not to worry, these things happen, still a great result for Rosa.

 

[Hyman]

Had Valverde prepared decently this race after the TdF, riding in Canada and Italian semiclassics, he would have won it for sure. Disgraceful season for him, throwing away his chances at 36 years old.

Maybe he never finds this shape again.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Yeah, overall, it has actually been a really good year. The classics minus the Ardennes have been really fricken good (cobbles + Lombardia + Olympics) and the Giro and the Vuelta have both been above average. The Tour was horrible, yes, but isn't this the best year in like at least 5 years?

Yeah best season since 2010 no doubt.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Chaves 2016 season = Purito 2012 season.

Purito's 2012 season was still better.

Purito 2012 = 2 GT podiums + monument + classic + WT + 5 stages in GT's + 12 victories in total

Chaves 2016 = 2 GT's podiums + monument + 1 stage in GT + 3 victories in total

But Chaves rode a really positive attacking and great season!

Pretty funny that their seasons are quite similar, yet Chaves has scored 1314 cq points, while Rodriguez scored 3118 in his 2012 season

 

[This Charming Man]

Re: Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Not always. Especially the first.

Completly different animal, stage races and classics. If you want to go back to the Riis, Pantani era, you might see, the kind of action that you want to see in stage races. The only way you are going to see the excitement in GTs now, is to lose power meters, race radios, sticky bottles, lean the teams to six, make the guys sleep int tents, like the old days. Now, the riders are robots, excluding, Nibali, Valverde, and Contador, who have savy heart and guts. Quintana, riders like him, are boring.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Not always. Especially the first.

Completly different animal, stage races and classics. If you want to go back to the Riis, Pantani era, you might see, the kind of action that you want to see in stage races. The only way you are going to see the excitement in GTs now, is to lose power meters, race radios, sticky bottles, lean the teams to six, make the guys sleep int tents, like the old days. Now, the riders are robots, excluding, Nibali, Valverde, and Contador, who have savy heart and guts. Quintana, riders like him, are boring.

Still I'm happy that I missed Paris Roubaix this year and not the entire giro. IMO one day of racing can hardly be as good as 21 stages combined even if the one day race is better than the best stage of the stage race.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Not always. Especially the first.

Completly different animal, stage races and classics. If you want to go back to the Riis, Pantani era, you might see, the kind of action that you want to see in stage races. The only way you are going to see the excitement in GTs now, is to lose power meters, race radios, sticky bottles, lean the teams to six, make the guys sleep int tents, like the old days. Now, the riders are robots, excluding, Nibali, Valverde, and Contador, who have savy heart and guts. Quintana, riders like him, are boring.

Still I'm happy that I missed Paris Roubaix this year and not the entire giro. IMO one day of racing can hardly be as good as 21 stages combined even if the one day race is better than the best stage of the stage race.

I disagree. That Paris-Roubaix was the best race, be it a stage race or one day race, for a long time, much better than the Giro.

 

[This Charming Man]

Re: Re:

Stage race of the year? Lombardia is the only thing that comes close to the cobbled classics in terms of excitement and entertainment.

Lombardia, Flanders and Roubaix always put the Grand Tours to shame.

Not always. Especially the first.

Completly different animal, stage races and classics. If you want to go back to the Riis, Pantani era, you might see, the kind of action that you want to see in stage races. The only way you are going to see the excitement in GTs now, is to lose power meters, race radios, sticky bottles, lean the teams to six, make the guys sleep int tents, like the old days. Now, the riders are robots, excluding, Nibali, Valverde, and Contador, who have savy heart and guts. Quintana, riders like him, are boring.

Still I'm happy that I missed Paris Roubaix this year and not the entire giro. IMO one day of racing can hardly be as good as 21 stages combined even if the one day race is better than the best stage of the stage race.

I disagree. That Paris-Roubaix was the best race, be it a stage race or one day race, for a long time, much better than the Giro.

Roubaix/Flanders sometimes MSR are races Iwillnever miss. Also, mountain stages of GTs, and TTS, GTs. Interesting stuff.

 

[This Charming Man]

Towing, pacing riders, needs to be abolished. Also, bottle handoffs, should be limited.
Unfair advantages, similar to doping.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Still I'm happy that I missed Paris Roubaix this year and not the entire giro. IMO one day of racing can hardly be as good as 21 stages combined even if the one day race is better than the best stage of the stage race.

I disagree. That Paris-Roubaix was the best race, be it a stage race or one day race, for a long time, much better than the Giro.

Roubaix/Flanders sometimes MSR are races Iwillnever miss. Also, mountain stages of GTs, and TTS, GTs. Interesting stuff.

MSR may be dull sometimes, but those last kilometers are golden.

 

[This Charming Man]

Re: Re:

Still I'm happy that I missed Paris Roubaix this year and not the entire giro. IMO one day of racing can hardly be as good as 21 stages combined even if the one day race is better than the best stage of the stage race.

I disagree. That Paris-Roubaix was the best race, be it a stage race or one day race, for a long time, much better than the Giro.

Roubaix/Flanders sometimes MSR are races Iwillnever miss. Also, mountain stages of GTs, and TTS, GTs. Interesting stuff.

MSR may be dull sometimes, but those last kilometers are golden.

The descent into San Remo, around the greenhouses, at 300k, treacherous, requires major skills. Love that. Funny watching the contenders yesterday, top 4, climbers, what an ugly finish and sprint....just no skills, but worthy winners.